Beau Friedlander:
Adam. Adam. Adam.
Adam Levin:
Beau.
Beau Friedlander:
Travis.
Travis Taylor:
Yes.
Beau Friedlander:
Did either of you guys buy anything on Amazon prime day?
Adam Levin:
I didn’t, but it’s entirely possible that other members of my family might have.
Travis Taylor:
I was tempted, but I fought the urge.
Beau Friedlander:
Okay. Well, I did it because they were selling apple AirPod pluses, or whatever they’re called. The ones that I currently have that are no longer working because of planned obsolescence and I’m going to give the plan to obsolete ones to my daughter. They’re quite [inaudible 00:00:43].
Travis Taylor:
That’s heartwarming.
Beau Friedlander:
It’s a heartwarming tale of sort of generosity, but I’m wondering like those scams, I’m sorry, maybe I’m getting ahead of myself. Are there scams related to Amazon Prime day guys?
Adam Levin:
Oh, there are. And whenever I hear Amazon prime day, I just remember one of my favorite football players, neon Dion Sanders, also known as prime time.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, I hear a theme coming here at Travis.
Travis Taylor:
Like prime time for scammers perhaps or…
Adam Levin:
Prime time.
Beau Friedlander:
No, I just think like, were I just say, “This weekend I enjoyed a beautiful grilled prime rib.” I would be interrupted by-
Adam Levin:
Prime time.
Beau Friedlander:
You know this about Adam. He wants to be the voiceover guy for every single tasty object for sale in the world.
Adam Levin:
Come on, wouldn’t you like to just be able to be the voice of… Prime time.
Beau Friedlander:
I kind of want to hear Travis say it. Travis do you think you could do it a little less-
Travis Taylor:
ASMR?
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. Yeah. A little less creepy.
Travis Taylor:
Prime time.
Beau Friedlander:
All right, guys, are there scams related to Amazon prime? What are the scams? Come on.
Adam Levin:
You know, the scams are everything from, there was a problem with the order that you made, there was something wrong with the credit card, or we just want to make sure that you’re there when delivery comes, because someone has to be there to sign for the delivery of this particular product, because-
Beau Friedlander:
Wait, so it’s just like a standard, like they’re just using the prime day whatever, to guess? I hate this. So it’s the same old story.
Adam Levin:
Always.
Travis Taylor:
It is indeed. Yep.
Beau Friedlander:
So, they’re just guessing that I bought something and they’re going to, without giving me this specific product, they’ll say, “Your order didn’t go through.” And that could happen at any time in the next three or four weeks. Right?
Adam Levin:
Same music, different lyrics.
Travis Taylor:
Or, they’ll find a product that they will be pretty sure that you want, like AirPods for instance, and then say that they’re doing a really, really, really low price on them. And the link will go to amazoon.com or something along those lines.
Beau Friedlander:
Amazoon.
Travis Taylor:
Well, I mean, I just got added my inbox saying that it was summer black Friday and this was for a business that was not amazon.com. So right now, it’s just this huge time of year for e-commerce sites to start doing these deep discounts. But-
Beau Friedlander:
It’s also… But that’s also like it’s for a holiday that doesn’t exist.
Travis Taylor:
Exactly. Yeah. It’s it seemed to be pushing the point.
Adam Levin:
Labor day is coming up too, and you’re going to be having all kinds of labor day sales. So it’s just, if you think about it, they’re just going from Amazon day, prime day, to labor day, prime time, to Thanksgiving, to it’s Halloween, all that stuff. It’s coming. They simply, again, same music, different lyrics.
Beau Friedlander:
So, Adam, what I’m hearing you say is that when it comes to scams, it’s always…
Adam Levin:
Prime time. Welcome to what the hack. A show about hackers, scammers and the people they go after. I’m Adam cyber scam-B-damer.
Beau Friedlander:
I’m Beau, cyber damn ham.
Travis Taylor:
And I’m Travis, cyber [inaudible 00:04:18].
Adam Levin:
Today were here about a so-called art heist of a different kind and how an acclaimed artist finally got his money back many, many years later. Please welcome Rudy Shepherd.
Adam Levin:
So Rudy, where are you coming to us from right now?
Rudy Shepherd:
I’m in Yonkers, New York, in my studio.
Beau Friedlander:
Yonkers [inaudible 00:04:57]. Yonkers, New York, which is in onomatopoeia for the sound that Canada geese make. Right? Yonkers.
Rudy Shepherd:
Really?
Beau Friedlander:
Yonkers.
Rudy Shepherd:
No, it’s not. [inaudible 00:05:09].
Beau Friedlander:
No, it’s a messed up thing. I just said.
Rudy Shepherd:
[inaudible 00:05:10]. I have no idea why it’s called Yonkers.
Adam Levin:
Beau, I love the big words. Beau is using another big word.
Beau Friedlander:
Yonkers? It’s a goose word.
Adam Levin:
No, onomatopoeia.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, onomatopoeia.
Beau Friedlander:
Anyway-
Adam Levin:
The raceway is no longer there. Is it? Or-
Rudy Shepherd:
Oh yeah. It’s here. It’s alive and kicking.
Adam Levin:
Is that now a casino? That’s the one that…
Rudy Shepherd:
It’s a casino. It’s a Raceway. Every once in a while when I’m driving by, I’ll see… They do the races with the carts.
Beau Friedlander:
They have the Trotters.
Adam Levin:
The Trotters. Trotters.
Beau Friedlander:
But Rudy, I don’t think of you as living in that part of Yonkers. Are you in that part of Yonkers?
Rudy Shepherd:
Kind of further east. I’m closer to the river.
Beau Friedlander:
You’re like the city part of Yonkers.
Rudy Shepherd:
I live in Riverdale, but I’m in my studio. My studio’s in Yonkers.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, you live in Riverdale, but okay. Now we have everything. So, what’s your password for your bank account?
Rudy Shepherd:
You got my… You’ll probably figure out my birthday.
Adam Levin:
Yeah. Travis has already deciphered your social security number. So, we’re on our way. We’re on our way.
Travis Taylor:
I’m too busy looking at the reason why it’s called Yonkers.
Beau Friedlander:
Why is it? Well, Yonkers has to be a native American, an Algonquin name or something.
Travis Taylor:
It’s a Dutch actually.
Beau Friedlander:
What?
Travis Taylor:
De Yonkers, apparently means the young gentleman.
Beau Friedlander:
The young gentleman.
Adam Levin:
Yeah.
Rudy Shepherd:
I have a question. You guys seem to be very good at research. So, there’s a Tyler the creator song called Yonkers.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah.
Rudy Shepherd:
He’s from freaking California, and I would love to know why the song… It’s like one of his first famous songs from when he was really young and I’m like, why does he have a song named Yonkers?
Travis Taylor:
I’ve already found out.
Beau Friedlander:
What’s the answer, Travis?
Travis Taylor:
Yeah. He created it as a parody of stereotypical 1990s, New York hip hop.
Beau Friedlander:
Nice. So he was making fun of everybody who was actually from Pelham.
Travis Taylor:
Pretty much.
Rudy Shepherd:
Right. Right.
Beau Friedlander:
I think I know the answer to this, but I’m fairly certain unless somebody’s on Wikipedia right now, they don’t know where you’re from. Where’d you grow up?
Rudy Shepherd:
Man, that is a complicated question. Do you want the real answer?
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. I want the one that’s going to give us the security answers for your password.
Rudy Shepherd:
Mother’s maiden name [inaudible 00:07:30].
Adam Levin:
That or the answer that you give when the CIA contacts you.
Beau Friedlander:
No, but really where’d you grow up?
Rudy Shepherd:
Long story. I was born in Baltimore and then when I was like two, we moved to Texas.
Beau Friedlander:
What?
Rudy Shepherd:
To Lubbock, and then we were only there for like a year and a half. And then, we moved to Houston and I was there for like 11 years.
Beau Friedlander:
So, you grew up in Texas and how’d you end up in the Northeast?
Rudy Shepherd:
So my dad’s from Brooklyn, from Bushwick, and my mom’s from Baltimore. So I mean, we were in Texas for like 11 years or something and my folks were just totally isolated and like, I’m sure… I mean, they almost got divorced. My mom was like, we’re coming. So, instead of them getting divorced, we’d moved back east to like Northern Virginia. So, my mom could be close to her family and so then they didn’t get divorced.
Beau Friedlander:
I like northern Virginia. [inaudible 00:08:20].
Rudy Shepherd:
This is all the investigative work that I put together sort of now that I’m 47. I’m like, “Oh yeah, I remember we, yeah.”
Rudy Shepherd:
They almost split up and I almost had to choose between which one. And then, we moved back to Northern Virginia.
Travis Taylor:
Where, in northern Virginia?
Rudy Shepherd:
Springfield, Virginia.
Travis Taylor:
Oh, nice. Okay.
Adam Levin:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
Okay. So, now we do have everything we need. It was really nice talking to today, Rudy. I hope you have a great day.
Rudy Shepherd:
You didn’t ask my, like my pets, my favorite dog. [inaudible 00:08:48].
Adam Levin:
We’re going to get to that in a minute.
Rudy Shepherd:
You got to distract me with some other questions.
Beau Friedlander:
And Rudy promise us this. Tell me this. I know that you’re a fan of the band Phish, do you do all your passwords have Phish related themes?
Rudy Shepherd:
None of them do, but that is a great idea.
Beau Friedlander:
No, it’s a bad idea. It’s a very bad idea. Don’t do that.
Rudy Shepherd:
Please don’t.
Beau Friedlander:
Don’t.
Adam Levin:
There’s Beau trying to scale the heights again.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, scale the heights. Oh, that was terrible. So, Adam, I don’t know if you know this about Rudy, but in addition to being very nice and cheerful and Phish fan, do they call them Phish heads?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah, they do. I guess.
Beau Friedlander:
That’s kind of horrible. Anyway, a Phish head. He’s also a very accomplished artist.
Adam Levin:
Acclaimed, famous.
Beau Friedlander:
All of that. He’s a professor at Pennsylvania State, in the art department there and on a lot of different boards about the arts. So Rudy, what is-
Adam Levin:
Is it really a happy valley?
Beau Friedlander:
Well, I was going to get to that. So, you like Greek life, Adam. I don’t. And Rudy teaches at a school that is like absolutely riddled with Greek life. Am I right? Happy valley is like… So I know there’s an artist named Eva O’Leary who actually has spent a lot of time chronicling the happy valley and it doesn’t look that happy.
Adam Levin:
How long have you been at Penn state?
Rudy Shepherd:
For 12 years.
Beau Friedlander:
What time flies, man. I remember when you first went there. So, now your art practice, can you tell us a bit about it? Because I know Travis and Adam probably aren’t so familiar with what you’re up to.
Rudy Shepherd:
So my work, I mean, I’ve done a lot of things over the years, but it’s all been sort of political looking at race and identity and things like that. So, when I was in college, I was kind of looking at history and slavery. I went to undergrad down south in North Carolina. So it’s like there’s all this history all around you and monuments and they used to sell slaves on that rock… That kind of [inaudible 00:11:02].
Rudy Shepherd:
So I was like kind of delving into that and seeing the connection between that and like the [inaudible 00:11:06] I went through as a kid and the one black kid and like mostly all white schools and things like that. And all the expectations and racism, the positive and negative like, “Oh, he’s really cool, or he must be good at basketball, or he’s into rap.”
Rudy Shepherd:
And actually, I was into like everything. Punk rock and skateboarding and I never really fit in the box. And so, that’s kind of how I got into art. Right. So, at first it was sort of like trying to look at systems and all that, and people were just getting annoyed and like feeling guilty and it had sort of a real limit to it.
Beau Friedlander:
Now, hold on. When you say you’re trying to look into systems, what do you mean by that? Just for people who may not know.
Rudy Shepherd:
Like looking at how black people ended up here and how they were treated when they first got here and how that relates to how we’re perceived now, you know what I mean?
Beau Friedlander:
Gotcha.
Rudy Shepherd:
Which is totally legit, right. But like, when you’re just like beating people over their head with like images of lynching and things like that, they’re just not a very nuanced conversation. [inaudible 00:12:03] but as a 20 something year old, it’s just like real and visceral and you know, so my work was very like visceral. And I tried doing like installations and videos and like really trying to bring it alive and I think I was pretty successful. But-
Adam Levin:
Well, what kind of installations were you doing?
Rudy Shepherd:
So, I was in Chicago going to grad school, right. And, Ida B Wells is from Chicago. She did all this research on lynching, right. So, I went to the historical society and did all this research. This is a little pre-internet being what it is now-
Adam Levin:
And researching lynching in Chicago, or just in general?
Rudy Shepherd:
Just lynching in general and Ida B Wells and like her… So I found this page of statistics and here’s all the people that were lynched from 1882 to 1968, its kind of the time period. Reconstruction. And it was 4,642 people. So I was like, I say that to you, you’re like, “Ah, it’s kind of a lot. It’s not that maybe I would’ve thought maybe it was more.”
Rudy Shepherd:
It’s just like, doesn’t mean anything.
Beau Friedlander:
It’s kind of a lot.
Rudy Shepherd:
Right. But it’s sort of… I was like, how do you make that people feel that number? Like, that’s a lot of people. And so, I got rope and like 4,642 feet of rope, I use that as material. So, I made this installation in my studio, the ground’s covered in dirt. I cast these wax replicas of my ears and they’re kind of mixed in this like brown wax, so you can’t really see them. And there’s one, that’s bronze.
Rudy Shepherd:
There’re these ropes, kind of hanging all tangled. There’s a text. This page of statistics, state by state, blah, blah, blah. That’s all going on, on the wall. And it’s photocopy. Each one is like a generation. So the information gets kind of erased to zero. You know how photocopy work [inaudible 00:13:44]. Then I had a photograph like of a lynching and I did the same thing with that.
Rudy Shepherd:
So each generation, it just sort of like blurs and-
Beau Friedlander:
Disappears.
Rudy Shepherd:
… You know, and just think about how history gets erased. But when you walk in the room… You can’t walk in the room and see the piece without stepping in the dirt and getting it all over your feet. And when you leave, you walk out and you take it with you, and you’re kind of marred by it. And so, thinking about how we’re all implicated you, me like our grand parents. Instead of this idea that like, “Well, I wasn’t there, I didn’t do it.” You know? So…
Adam Levin:
When you think about the installation and you think about the history, the tragic history of all this-
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah.
Adam Levin:
… It’s amazing. It’s mind boggling that in the past year, finally, Congress passed an anti lynching law.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. A little late, but yeah, 70 years late, but yeah, I guess better than never.
Travis Taylor:
So, where did you go from there?
Rudy Shepherd:
So, that was after the end of my first year of grad school. So, I took all that rope, I went to this art residency in Maine and I did this installation out in the woods, I guess like a public art piece in the woods. And, I took that same rope and I wrapped it all around these trees and it became more of like a memorial.
Rudy Shepherd:
So, to see the piece you had to walk like 10 minutes into the woods and I would take you and you would see it. And it ended up being more of a memorial and kind of like an experience and like kind of more of a similar, like the piece was in a similar place of where something like that might happen. And, it just sort of like… And then, people would talk to me about it.
Rudy Shepherd:
It was like a totally different experience. It shifted things. It was more of a homage to those people that died as opposed to just like smack, smack, smack, like using them in this sort of… With the best intentions, but sort of like in a salacious way. Like, “Oh, these dead people it’s on you.”
Rudy Shepherd:
It was sort of like honoring them more. And that sort of was like a little bit more like, “Huh, maybe this is a little more of an interesting experience.” So I did a performance where I had… It was at this residency called [inaudible 00:15:47]. So, I did this performance where I had like all 60 people were there, like meet me at the edge of the woods. And I was like painted in all white, like totally nude, and they didn’t know what they were going to see.
Rudy Shepherd:
Most people hadn’t seen the piece. And so, I just turned around and I started walking to the piece and they started following me and it’s like a 10 minute walk. Literally just threw the woods in Maine from the residency off into the woods. And then, when they get there, they kind of like see the piece and they see me and they understand like I’m the victim. And they represent sort of the lynch mob.
Rudy Shepherd:
Which was, from what I understood, a mix of people that wanted to be there that were for what was going on and kids and mothers, and people that didn’t want to be there that were just sort of like, “Well, this is going on.” You know, which is a part of this phenomenon that I was interested in. It’s like, when you see… People send me all kinds of. So when you see pictures, you see like little kids and they’re like, what the [inaudible 00:16:42] is going on? Dad, why are we here? This is not cool. But, their cameras are on.
Beau Friedlander:
So, was there a sort of punk rock vibe to that? It sounds a little punk.
Rudy Shepherd:
Oh, for sure. Yeah. It was like a little bit of a bait and switch and you know what I mean? Like you… Wait a minute, what do I represent? You know, which I was really into and to take it like too far. Like when we got in the middle, there was kind of a rain space that I made with all the trees. I played like strange fruit by Billy holiday and that serves as like the… Probably didn’t need to, but it was definitely like the emotional… [inaudible 00:17:33].
Beau Friedlander:
Now, what year was this in Rudy?
Rudy Shepherd:
That was the summer of 2000.
Beau Friedlander:
So it was 20, 22 years ago?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. Strange fruit. I mean, strange fruit, actually, I don’t know if you know this, but I’m like 95% sure… Travis can look it up, that it was actually written not by Billy holiday, but it was written by a Yonkers school teacher.
Rudy Shepherd:
Get out of here.
Beau Friedlander:
I believe it was written by a little old Jewish man from Yonkers.
Beau Friedlander:
[inaudible 00:18:21].
Travis Taylor:
It was not Tyler the creator.
Beau Friedlander:
No, it was not Tyler the creator [inaudible 00:18:27] but I would go full circle to Yonkers.
Travis Taylor:
Yeah. You were spot on. It’s actually was written by a Jewish communist teacher and civil rights activist from the Bronx called Abel Meeropol who wrote it first as a poem.
Adam Levin:
You also do a series of portraits of people in the news, right?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah, yeah.
Adam Levin:
Can you talk about that a little?
Rudy Shepherd:
One day I was coming home from therapy. I was at my studio, then I went to therapy and I’m riding back to the studio and everybody’s reading this newspaper about this guy that had killed… Young, black guy looked a little bit like me balded headed. He had shot two police officers. It killed them. And that day, the day before he was on trial and he had stuck his tongue out at the wife of one of the victims, right.
Rudy Shepherd:
In court, the day before. So the post said, “Fry, baby fry.” And they have this picture of this young black guy looking like me, kind of pouting. And I’m riding on the train and I’m like, man, that’s [inaudible 00:19:26] up. Just layers of [inaudible 00:19:29] up. What he did was [inaudible 00:19:29] up like the post, just being like, just [inaudible 00:19:32] burn this guy.
Rudy Shepherd:
Like, you know what I mean? So I’m just riding the train, I’m looking at this and I’m like, “Well, he looks a lot like me. Like everybody’s probably looking at me now in relationship to him in this huge ad that covers the…”
Rudy Shepherd:
So, I just like took the paper. Like I bought a copy and I like put it on the wall, my studio, and I’m making these sculptures and eventually I’m like, “All right, I’m just going to make a painting of this guy.” And it just led to another portrait of another black guy in the midst of some terrible thing that he did or didn’t do, and just how the media like-
Beau Friedlander:
But also heroes, but you also paint heroes, Rudy. I mean, from what I-
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah.
Rudy Shepherd:
But it started off with this. It started off very specifically with these people and how they were kind of convicted by the media and this sort of examination of how in America, we don’t have one religion. Right. But like, so the media kind of stands in for like the arbiter of like our morals. Like this person’s good, this person’s bad. Don’t do this. Oh, this is embarrassing. Let’s laugh at this person now.
Rudy Shepherd:
Like the machinations of how sort of like we’re all on board and like kind of one ethos. That’s kind of like what the project’s really about. Is how the media is just sort of like, this is good now, this is bad now. Don’t be like this person. Be like that person. You know? And so, it started with these black people convicted of crimes that were convicted by the media and everybody just assumes they’re guilty. And then, it kind of grew into looking at both the criminals and the victims and like trying to making portraits of both of them and mixing them together and not telling you who’s who, when you know… Now, they’re just people again. And then, then you can look at the little index and see like, oh, I’m supposed to hate this one. And I’m supposed to feel sad about that one and just kind of exploring that and how it’s been presented.
Adam Levin:
Well, and the other thing, which is interesting, when you’re talking about the media convicting, it depends upon which media.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah.
Adam Levin:
Because certain media convicts, one group of people and the other media convicts, the other group of people.
Rudy Shepherd:
So yeah. Yeah.
Adam Levin:
Well, this seems like perfect for social media. Do you post this online?
Rudy Shepherd:
I do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that’s what happens sort of a couple years into it is that like usually at first it was just like, “All right, I have a show every two years.” You know, classic sort of artist cycle. And so, I’d be making this work and then I’d put it up. And like, people would be like, “Who’s that again?” You know, there’s kind of this lag of time and people forget half of the people that are on every paper for a week and then they disappear. And then, I kind of got frustrated with the time lag and I started just seeing something in the media, making work about it and then like putting it on social media.
Beau Friedlander:
And is it very fast? The works fast?
Rudy Shepherd:
Well, within the day. I mean, I’m not like super fast, you know what I mean? Like I might like literally be on my way to the studio, see a newspaper and just like make work about that day and then post it. And people are thinking about it, they’ve just seen the same story. And it just leads to this like more kind of active conversation with other people that are seeing it. And you know, like what’s interesting for me is like, you never know which one of these stories is going to pop off, right. Like I made a painting of George Floyd, like the day I heard about it, which was maybe the day after it happened. Just thinking this is another [inaudible 00:22:36] up story.
Rudy Shepherd:
It wasn’t the first, it wasn’t anything particularly unique, but like people caught onto it. And, all of a sudden it was a really big deal that I made that painting and it got hundreds of things and everybody wants to show it and follow it and repost it. But it’s like, I did like probably a hundred other people. And they were like, “Whatever, I don’t care about all these other people that died just like a year before.”
Rudy Shepherd:
So, it’s like, you never know. I’ve been able to just sort of watch like, “Huh, is that interesting? Like, this is important. This isn’t.” For whatever reason, it’s not.
Beau Friedlander:
Do people get in touch with you to buy these things or…
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah, they do. I had the gallery forever, like from 2003 to 2016, something like that. 14 years, I had this gallery everything’s going great. 2016, they close. The person running it was just like, “I’m done.”
Rudy Shepherd:
So from 2016 to 2020 or whatever, I was kind of just like, everything was coming directly through me. I’m selling work. I’m having shows. It’s just me. Before that, the gallery dealt with everything. Museum wants to show my work, they go through the gallery. Somebody wants to buy stuff, they go through the gallery. I don’t really know how it all works. I just like, “Hey, Rudy, bring the work in, we’ll ship it over to Tennessee to have a show or something.” Right. But at this point, 2019, galleries close, definitely things slow down. But every once in a while, somebody reaches out and wants to buy something and I sell it to them and I mail it off to them and I get a hundred percent of the profit.
Rudy Shepherd:
So, it’s great. Right. So I have a website, right. And it has a contact page. So, like nowadays, like by 2019, that just goes straight to the trash. My email has figured out that this 95% of it is just straight, garbage, ads and just random bots and whatever. So, I have to look in trash every once in a while, because sometimes there’s a legit like, “Hey, like come have a show at this gallery or something like that.”
Rudy Shepherd:
So, I’m digging through the trash and I see like, “Hey, I want to buy some of your art.”
Beau Friedlander:
And, did you smell a rat?
Rudy Shepherd:
No, I didn’t.
Rudy Shepherd:
In summer of 2019 I’ve seen it. I tracked it down. One guy reached out to me, wanted to buy a piece. I made a painting in Nipsy Hussle.
Beau Friedlander:
Like it was it one of these portraits that you post on your Instagram account?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yep.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yep. I posted it on there-
Adam Levin:
Remember he was assassinated.
Rudy Shepherd:
So yep. Yep. Yep. So I posted on there, someone from LA who had bought my work before, saw it and reached out like DM’d me like, “Hey, I want to buy this.”
Rudy Shepherd:
I’m like great. Here’s how much it is. I pack it up. I mail it off to him and it gets damaged on the way. So then he is reaching out like, “Oh, the piece got damaged.” So, he sends it back to me. I’m like, all right, what are we going to do? I need to refund you. He’s like, “Why don’t you make another one?”
Rudy Shepherd:
So, I make another one. I send that to him. He’s like, “Ah, I don’t know. It looks different. It’s not quite as good as the first one.”
Beau Friedlander:
God, this guy sounds really annoying.
Rudy Shepherd:
I’m in the midst of all of this. Right. And then I’m like, all right. Like I get another mess. Like in the midst of like dealing with this guy in California in the damaged piece and the remaking the piece. So, I’m digging through the trash and I see like, “Hey, I want to buy some of your art.”
Rudy Shepherd:
Oh, he says it was like his wife’s birthday. He wants to buy a piece of my art and give it to her as a birthday present. But, he wants it to be a surprise. So, he can’t use his own bank account. He’s going to use his company’s bank account, right.
Beau Friedlander:
Now. Wait, no stop. I got to stop you right there. Is he looking for his wife’s present to be one of these really punk rock images from your portrait series?
Rudy Shepherd:
[inaudible 00:26:11] at first, he’s just like, “I want to buy a piece of your art.”
Rudy Shepherd:
And then he I’d say, “well, we’ll pick something out then we’ll go from there. I’ll tell you how much it is or whatever.”
Rudy Shepherd:
So he picks out one of the holy mountains, which I like that makes sense. Right. You know, pretty mountains. So, it makes sense. I’m like great. Yeah, of course you want them. Yeah. It’s all tracking. So, it’s 1600 bucks. So he’s like, “All right, well I’m going to pay you twice that and you’re going to pay the shipper. And then the shipper’s going to… Let shipper will be in touch with you directly. I’m in, wherever he is. And you know, so you guys can just like work that all out. So, I’ll send you this check from my company and then you pay the shipper.”
Travis Taylor:
Did he say what the company was?
Rudy Shepherd:
His company? No, he didn’t say in the email.
Travis Taylor:
Right. Okay.
Beau Friedlander:
Now, but why was he sending you twice the amount?
Rudy Shepherd:
Because he’s, using this art shipper.
Travis Taylor:
He said that he wanted to buy your holy mountain piece, which is a wonderful piece and that he was going to send you extra money because it should cover shipping handling and a lot of other stuff.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. So that was the idea, that maybe there’d be extra leftover, he’d get it back or something. So…
Travis Taylor:
And is this something you’d run into before?
Rudy Shepherd:
No, never.
Travis Taylor:
Okay. So, definitely unusual.
Rudy Shepherd:
I think I was distracted by the other sale that was kind of going. So when I sent the first thing to the first guy, like I rushed, I was just like, I just grabbed it and like, didn’t wrap it very well and dropped it off. Like why did I rush? You know, I’m like distracted, worried about, “Oh, what does he need his money back now?”
Rudy Shepherd:
I’m talking to my friend over here about… I’m like in the midst of that and whatever else is… I can’t think of what else might’ve been going on. Like life and whatever, and just not paying a lot of close attention. And also just like, man, it’d be great to get this 600 bucks, 1600 bucks for this art piece. I could sure use the money, right. And sort of like accommodate [inaudible 00:28:03].
Beau Friedlander:
Well, you know what you should do Rudy, is you should market them as crumpled up. And then, you don’t have to worry about this then.
Rudy Shepherd:
Right. Extra in papers.
Adam Levin:
But this is how these guys work is that obviously you’re distracted, you’re busy, you’re living life. You’re doing your day job. And, within the context of that, they try to catch you.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it’s sort of like a little ask here. Let’s do it this way instead of that way, like let’s use Zelle instead of Venmo. I was like, all right, I don’t know? So, I keep saying like, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
Rudy Shepherd:
So I’m like, all right. I’m going to be careful, like I’m going to deposit this check he gave me and make sure it clears before I send him anything. Right. That’s me being careful. So I put it in, I wait, five days, he keeps emailing me, hounding me. What’s taking you so long. When are we going to do X, Y or Z? You know? And I’m just sort of like trying to like-
Beau Friedlander:
Slam the breaks, slam the brakes.
Adam Levin:
But that was a good move. That was an excellent move.
Beau Friedlander:
No, but it was the right move. But Adam, what I’m hearing Adam, is the rush.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yep. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Adam Levin:
Oh, everything is yes. Yes. Today, today, today, urgent.
Beau Friedlander:
Was he poking you hard? He was really trying to get you to going.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. Everyday email, at least once or twice. Right. And this is all happens within a week and a half, but he’s pushing, pushing, pushing. And I’m like, oh God, I got to do some kind of due diligence.
Rudy Shepherd:
So, I don’t know this other… I’ve learned a lot through this. Right. So like Citibank will just clear a check. It doesn’t mean anything. They haven’t done anything. It doesn’t mean it’s really cleared and I don’t have to worry about it anymore. So, it goes from pending… You have… I don’t know if you have Citibank, but it’ll sit up there in pending and then, then it’ll drop down to like, now it’s really in. If you, bought something-
Travis Taylor:
This is through the company account, right?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. SJ something, whatever. It’s a random thing. That’s not the guy. It’s not the shippers. Right. See. So, it clears and then I Zelle him like this 1600 bucks. What happens next is so, he asked me for more money for something else. I don’t remember this. I don’t have it written down anywhere but by the time that happened, I already had figured out like [inaudible 00:30:14].
Beau Friedlander:
No, but have you sent the art?
Rudy Shepherd:
No, that’s the thing we’re on… We haven’t even gotten to. He sent me the check. I sent him the money. Now he’s asking for something else. He hasn’t even asked me to send him the art yet.
Beau Friedlander:
All right, Adam. So, I just, I’m trying, I feel like I’m hallucinating. He got a check from this guy.
Adam Levin:
From the guy’s company.
Beau Friedlander:
From the guy’s company.
Adam Levin:
Right.
Beau Friedlander:
And he goes to cash the check.
Adam Levin:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
And before that is finished, he’s asking for money back. Is that, do I have that right?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. And I’m feeling guilty like, oh, I’ve got the guy’s money. You know what I mean? And I haven’t given him anything. I think that was part of it too. Like in that interim time, when I’m [inaudible 00:30:56]. I’m feeling like a bad person for like holding onto his money and not giving him anything. Because to me, I’ve gotten it, it’s in my account. So I’m feeling the pressure of like, oh, I better.
Adam Levin:
Well, but you know, finally it’s cleared. You did the smart thing.
Rudy Shepherd:
That’s what I’m saying. Once it cleared, I’m like, oh, I better give this guy this money or whatever is… Get the ball rolling.
Beau Friedlander:
So, but let me ask you a question, Rudy, when he was pushing you and saying, “Did you get the money? Did you get the money? Can you send me the money? Did you get the money?”
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
What about the art? Was he saying, “Have he sent the art? Do you have a certificate of insurance? Where is the shipping label. What’s going on?”
Rudy Shepherd:
Nope.
Rudy Shepherd:
Nope.
Beau Friedlander:
Nothing. So that, is a clue.
Rudy Shepherd:
You got to remember this is all happening within like a week and a half. There wasn’t a lot of time.
Beau Friedlander:
No. [inaudible 00:31:42]. You also have another person who’s annoyed by not getting the painting.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That I’m over here doing kind of the same thing with.
Adam Levin:
Meanwhile, the guy’s really saying to you, “I sent you 3,200, but can you send me 5,000 back?” You know, just…
Rudy Shepherd:
Exactly. That’s kind of where it’s going. Like the next request is like now [inaudible 00:31:58].
Beau Friedlander:
Did it go there?
Rudy Shepherd:
Well, I think what he was saying is that like, “Oh, the shipping’s going to be even more like, can you send another 500 or something?” You know, something like that or front it or [inaudible 00:32:10]. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that’s when I was like, “No.”
Adam Levin:
That’s like Beau has a scammer, Thomas and Beau’s offering him $5,000 to come on the show and tell his story. And Thomas is going, “No, I just want my $30.”
Rudy Shepherd:
So, once like bing, he’s asking for more. Now I’m on the phone with Citibank. Like, can you turn this around? Like I’m trying to make it their fault. Like why’d you clear it if it wasn’t real. And, they’re saying, “Sir, you should never have used Zelle.”
Rudy Shepherd:
Like that’s only for people, you know and there’s no reversing a Zelle charge. Like I’m on to fighting with them and trying to placate the guy in California and get him their piece. And, I pretty much stopped talking to the guy.
Adam Levin:
How much did you send him from Zelle?
Rudy Shepherd:
1600.
Adam Levin:
Okay.
Rudy Shepherd:
Right, right. Right.
Beau Friedlander:
And how much was the check? 3,200?
Rudy Shepherd:
And he disappears basically.
Beau Friedlander:
But the check was $3,200.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
But the check was a bad check?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. But you know how long it took for it to go bad. It took three months or something like that for the city [inaudible 00:33:23].
Beau Friedlander:
Three months?
Rudy Shepherd:
The check is no good. I’m like, how could I have waited three months for a find out from you?
Beau Friedlander:
You sent him 1600 bucks. He sent you 3,200. You did that on the strength of that check clearing.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yep.
Beau Friedlander:
I don’t get the problem.
Rudy Shepherd:
Oh, the problem is that I reached out to the bank and I said, “This is a scam. This guy isn’t who he says he is. Can you just reverse the Zelle charge?
Beau Friedlander:
What’d they say?
Rudy Shepherd:
They said, “No”. They said, like you sent a Zelle to them. It’s none of our business who they are. We’re not getting in the middle of it. Like, did you [inaudible 00:33:55].
Beau Friedlander:
Did they know the check was bad?
Rudy Shepherd:
[inaudible 00:33:57] it was some African name? I was like, “Yeah. They told me to send it to them.” And that’s who I sent it to. Well, they’re like, “You did what they asked you to do. If you didn’t know who they were, you shouldn’t have done it.” That’s the thing.
Beau Friedlander:
Wait, did they tell you about your check clearing or no?
Rudy Shepherd:
Well then I got to talking to them about that. Like I sent it to him because you said the check was good. There was a time in there when I was fighting with them. I knew that check was going to bounce, or I had like a pretty good… Like I had a pretty good understanding. Like, I’m sending money to some African guy. The guy in the email, some white guy, which makes you feel comfortable.
Rudy Shepherd:
And the company, the check comes from is just some other random… Like, I just put it all together. I was like, maybe there’s some off chance. The check’s going to clear. I’m going to keep the money. But, probably not. You know what I mean? Like I’m sitting for three months. In the meantime, I’m talking to Citibank, “Can we just like stop this before it happens?” Or like, it just happened a minute ago. I feel like as soon as I sent it to Zelle, it just like… I feel like just right away, I was like, “Oh no.”
Adam Levin:
Well, you know Zelle now has warnings about the fact that make sure you’re sending it to somebody you know, because we ain’t given it back.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And, at this point in 2019, you can look it up. [inaudible 00:35:07]. It was new to me. It was super new. I was like, what’s Zelle, I don’t know what Zelle is.
Beau Friedlander:
But the $1,600 is in this dude’s account now?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
And, he just disappears or does he say like where’s my art or is that the end of him?
Rudy Shepherd:
No, he didn’t say where’s my art. He asked for like something else, like $500 more for the shipping. It’s going to cost more. That’s kind of vaguely what I remember. And I said, “Ah, you know what? I don’t feel comfortable. I don’t really know who you are.”
Rudy Shepherd:
And like he may have fanned like one response and then he just disappeared. He’s like, I’ve gotten as much as I’m going to get out of this sucker. I think he’s on me. Is what it appeared. I mean, he literally just didn’t ask for any art, nothing. That’s how I just knew, it’s not real money. If it was, he’d be asking for his art piece. It just confirmed it.
Rudy Shepherd:
I think that’s what confirmed it before the check bounced three months later. That guy just disappeared. So, for three years guys-
Adam Levin:
Three.
Rudy Shepherd:
… Like three years-
Beau Friedlander:
What?
Rudy Shepherd:
… I sit just hosed, right. Crying to my friends, crying to anybody that’ll listen. And then I find out… Okay, so there’s two pieces of the story. So, I find out that this actually happened to my wife’s mother’s husband, second husband. Right? It happened to him like a couple years before, but he didn’t [inaudible 00:36:24] because he was embarrassed. Yeah. He’s like a self-made artist. Like, he retired and then became an artist and it happened to him and it happened so many times, he’s living up in Buffalo. Right? And he’s part of this, like art collective, it happened to so many people in the art collective that it says on their website, “People, don’t respond to these emails.”
Rudy Shepherd:
But he never told me because he was embarrassed. You know? He’s like this macho guy. I can’t tell anybody. I got scammed, literally beat for beat. The exact same thing happened.
Adam Levin:
So, this is why we’re all here.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah.
Adam Levin:
Because your appearance on this show and telling your story, other people will, God willing, avoid the problem because someone had the courage to step up and go, “I did it. It happened.” Life happens.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
I was just about to do it actually. No, sorry.
Rudy Shepherd:
I planned this whole thing somehow in my mind. I had there’s like this Bronx art collective thing that I joined that I was like, my ex was like, “Oh you should join it. You’ll get grants and stuff.”
Rudy Shepherd:
And I’m like, it put me on this list with a bunch of like art people that like represent themselves and I’m sure people go to that website and they just like hit all those people. You know what I mean? They’re sort of like, it’s pretty clear you’re probably like selling your work yourself. You don’t have a gallery.
Beau Friedlander:
Nasty. It’s like, they’re going after the Vincent Van Gohs to the world.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
But Vincent Van Goh had an art dealer brother, but still.
Rudy Shepherd:
They’re going after the people that are sort of like [inaudible 00:37:52].
Adam Levin:
No, so the independent contractor. Go after the independent contractor.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. So for three years, I’m just like trying to just forget it, turn it over. I paid $1,600 to learn this lesson, whatever. It’s in my mind trying to just like put it away and like not… Forgive myself. You know what I mean? Like just let go that I just got scammed and I’m like, I don’t need the money. I’m like trying every mental trick to be like, it’s okay that I got scammed. It really doesn’t matter. I’m going to be okay.
Adam Levin:
Where I’m from, in Yiddish, this would be known as rebbe gelt, which is the money you pay the rabbi to learn the lesson.
Rudy Shepherd:
Okay. There you go. Here’s the thing. $1,700 shows up in my bank account like in May of this year, 2022.
Adam Levin:
What?
Rudy Shepherd:
Three years later.
Travis Taylor:
Nice.
Rudy Shepherd:
I’m like, well that’s cool. And in my mind, even before I know what it is, I’m like, well that’s the… I’m already like a lot’s happened in three years. Like a lot. You can ask Beau. Like so much drama in my life, kid drug problem, goes to rehab.
Beau Friedlander:
So, this is karmic payback. Literally
Rudy Shepherd:
This is karma. This is God just like here. I was like, oh, even Steven, I don’t know what this money is.
Beau Friedlander:
With interest.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. Somehow even more. And then, a couple weeks later I get a letter from Citibank and it says, “You sent money through Zelle to somebody and it didn’t get to the person that you sent it to.” Like something kind of vague that at first when I read it, I took it one way to be like, oh see, they’re admitting that I was scammed. And then I took it another way to think like, “Oh, maybe it never like made it to its destination.” Like I really don’t know. You know, they kind of left it like vague enough that you don’t know what they mean. Like the money you sent didn’t go to the person you meant to send it to.
Beau Friedlander:
But you saw the money go.
Rudy Shepherd:
Right. That could mean that it bounced. Like it didn’t make it to its destination. They got busted. They’re admitting that I got scammed and they sent it to like the person… Which of was, I was trying to say is like this isn’t who I was sending it to, it’s the prince of Nigeria. So, I have no idea.
Adam Levin:
Wait, wait, wait. You mean, wait, you mean the money that I sent to the prince of Nigeria, wasn’t really to the prince of Nigeria?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
[inaudible 00:40:05]. You have to send that money. I did that. No, I did that too. You have to send that money if you want to get the estate settlement for the 2.6 million.
Adam Levin:
Well, that’s true.
Beau Friedlander:
I did that. I haven’t got my money yet, but they said it might take like 10 or 12 years.
Adam Levin:
No, but Travis and I have each bought a Ferrari. So, we thank you for the money Beau.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. You’re welcome. Right.
Adam Levin:
Thanks.
Beau Friedlander:
Travis. You got anything?
Travis Taylor:
Yeah. Did you ever do any like kind of follow up research on either the name or of the person or the name of the company?
Rudy Shepherd:
I mean, I think I did early on and it kind of didn’t-
Adam Levin:
Well, Travis will. Don’t worry about it.
Rudy Shepherd:
Well, I don’t, I mean, I sort of have erased everything now. I mean, well, it’s been long enough that it’s just buried in my email somewhere.
Travis Taylor:
But yeah, I guess one of the main things I’m wondering is whether or not that was like a stolen check from an actual business or if that was a phony business that had been set up and kind of how that factored into it.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. I mean, I don’t really know. I don’t know that I looked up the company. I think I looked at the initial guy like Malcolm, blah, blah, blah. You know, actually I looked it up right away and it was a real person. Like the name on the email was like just some white guy. You look it up and it’s a white guy and dude at some kind of like this event. And so I was like, well that tracks but the check and the person that I sent the Zelle to, were not him. So, it’s sort of…
Adam Levin:
You do have the money back now, right?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. I do, as of a couple months ago, which is just crazy.
Beau Friedlander:
Wow.
Beau Friedlander:
But you didn’t get it… It was through no activism of your own, correct?
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. Long after I’d given up on it.
Adam Levin:
All right. So, well, we know that your art is always looking at forgiving wrongdoers, if you can say that.
Rudy Shepherd:
Right, exactly. Yeah.
Adam Levin:
Right. Being, understanding, showing the heart, showing the love and I’m sure this is one wrongdoer. You don’t feel like you want to show the heart and love for.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. I mean, it really had me questioning human nature. Just like, are people evil? Am I wrong to be so like, well maybe that murderer had a good… Not a good reason, but you know, extenuating circumstance. Just like that whole sort of belief system that it’s all just way more complicated.
Adam Levin:
I’m sure what was going on in the back of your mind was that if it was just a 1600, I might have forgiven him. But then with the little blank asked me for even more money now I’m pissed.
Rudy Shepherd:
So yeah. Yeah. And I’m hurt and I’m embarrassed and it goes beyond the money to… I talked to a friend of mine and he was like, “Yeah, you’re just out there, like in your art and like put in your heart out there and working your hardest and for somebody to take advantage of you.” There specifically, is somehow just really hurt even more.
Adam Levin:
So, since you’ve had this experience, have you gotten emails from other people where you’ve started a question, whether [inaudible 00:43:38].
Rudy Shepherd:
I’ve gotten the same email. Somehow recently this email comes right into my regular inbox. I’ve gotten it like in the last, since January, I’ve gotten probably three of these. Changed the names. I’m buying a gift for my… Like literally word for word, they didn’t change the email.
Travis Taylor:
So, it was at the end of last year that the consumer financial protection bureau issued more guidance to banks about what losses that they actually need to cover in the case of fraud.
Rudy Shepherd:
Ah, what?
Travis Taylor:
Right. So, maybe that might have something to do with why you just got refunded. We’ll probably never know, but… So better, late than ever. But that might also explain the three year delay on your end.
Rudy Shepherd:
Wow. So then, they were on the hook for this.
Travis Taylor:
Yeah. Seems like it.
Rudy Shepherd:
According to the new rules.
Travis Taylor:
Or they would’ve just been content to sit on that money for [inaudible 00:44:27] as long as it took.
Adam Levin:
You got to love the CFPB.
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. Wow. That’s-
Adam Levin:
After-
Rudy Shepherd:
I have a lot of faith in the-
Adam Levin:
… After a few years of darkness, the CFPB-
Rudy Shepherd:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean it must be epidemic. Yeah.
Adam Levin:
It’s back. Well, golly, this was awesome. I mean, I’m sorry what happened to you and what happened to you wasn’t awesome.
Rudy Shepherd:
Hey, now it a great story. I’m even Steven. I might have even made 50 bucks somehow.
Adam Levin:
You know, I think one of the important things to remember in all of this is when it’s your product, you have a perfect right to dictate terms of the sale.
Adam Levin:
It’s all about what you’re getting paid. I think it’s important to be in a position to take the smart route, which is, I want to be paid the way I want to be paid. Not the way you want to pay me because you’re buying something from me.
Beau Friedlander:
Well, it’s a funny thing that you bring up there, Adam, because Travis and I both have plenty of experience as freelancers and Travis, when you make a website for somebody, do you get paid up front?
Travis Taylor:
At least in part.
Travis Taylor:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
Now, but you also have the ability to say like, you can turn the keys over at said website or not.
Travis Taylor:
Right.
Beau Friedlander:
Like you have the code, but as a writer, I have never had this experience knock on wood, but I send pieces in all the time and I don’t even expect to get paid for 90 days. Now there is copyright there and sure. There’s a lot of different protections that one gets, but it’s not just when you’re selling something. There’s a lot of other ways in which you can be scammed.
Adam Levin:
You know, if you go to any one of the sites like Shopify, eBay, any of those sites and buy things or sell things. Also, haven’t there been issues with the Facebook marketplace.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. For sure. So, what else? What are other kind of things could people scam you on?
Travis Taylor:
Oh, sports tickets, concert tickets, [inaudible 00:46:40] rally tickets.
Beau Friedlander:
Adam. We are an apolitical show.
Adam Levin:
Totally, an auto rally ticket.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, an auto.
Adam Levin:
The truth of matter is there are just so many different avenues that they can take to try to scam you based on whatever it is you’re trying to sell or buy.
Adam Levin:
You always question and never, this is a new world where it used to be trust, but verify now it’s never trust always verify. Tragic. True.
Beau Friedlander:
But also, and just take it slow.
Adam Levin:
In your quest for instant gratification, you could end up getting hurt.
Beau Friedlander:
Now when you’re paying for things though, there’s Venmo, there’s PayPal. There is-
Adam Levin:
Credit cards, credit cards, credit cards.
Beau Friedlander:
… Service that we shall not name. I was still talking, but I seem to hear there’s a little credit card bird in the room.
Adam Levin:
Credit card. No.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. That is the way to go. Right?
Adam Levin:
Always, always. Because credit cards, first of all, they have more protections. Certainly when you use a lot of these, not so much from PayPal, but when you use the instant cash transfer services, you could have a situation where it’s instantly transferred and you didn’t heed the warning, which is, just remember once you… Make sure it’s somebody you know, because if it isn’t and you hit send, it could be gone forever.
Beau Friedlander:
Thanks everyone for listening and if you like the episode, please give us five stars and leave us a review on apple podcasts. What the hack with Adam Levin is a production of Loud Tree Media.
Adam Levin:
It’s produced by Andrew Steven.
Travis Taylor:
You can find us online at LoudTreemedia.com and on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at Adam K Levin.
Speaker 6:
Loud Tree.
