Beau:
All right. So guys, I just sent an email to Max the Chimney Sweep where I live and Max is going to come and fix my chimney. He’s going to make it so I can do all kinds of cool warm things this summer with my fireplace. And I got an email back immediately from Max and it said, “Thanks. Can you do me a favor?” It was a weird email. So I wrote back, “Sure.” And he wrote back, “Can you send me an iTunes gift card?” So I called him and I was like, “Max, dude, did you just ask me for an iTunes card?” And he said, “No, no, no. You’re the fifth person to call me. I got hacked.” And what happened, Travis, was his email address was a Comcast email, but the reply came from the same email address but a Hotmail account.
Travis:
So it sounds like he got into his Comcast email address and just started forwarding that to the Hotmail address.
Beau:
Yep.
Adam:
So what did he say?
Beau:
Well, I said my usual thing, I was like, “Well, I told Max to call the police. And I told my friend at the secret service because I really don’t like when my private information is being accessed by someone like you. But here’s the deal. I’ll make it all go away for $250 in your pocket if you appear on our podcast about people like you.”
Adam:
We’ve had that before, where they never respond other than telling you they want 30 bucks.
Travis:
Did you offer to pay it in iTunes gift cards?
Beau:
No. I said what I said and he wrote back, “Your father.”
Adam:
What does your father have to do with this?
Beau:
That’s what I wanted to know. So I said, “What?” And he wrote back, “Give it to your father.” And I said, I couldn’t help it, I wrote back to him and I said, “You know, I tried to give it to my father, but he was busy with your mother.”
Adam:
Ohh.
Travis:
Approved.
Beau:
So anyway, we didn’t get him. I think we know scams are everywhere. But one thing I had never really thought about is that reality TV is sort of a scam. Did you ever think that before?
Adam:
Reality TV a scam? How’s that? Come on. It’s reality TV, it’s real, baby.
Beau:
Oh, you don’t believe that for a second, Adam.
Adam:
You mean to tell me that Kardashians aren’t really just saying and doing that stuff because it comes to them naturally?
Beau:
Travis, what do you think?
Travis:
I think it’s entirely staged. Yeah, it’s definitely a scam.
Adam:
All of it?
Travis:
Most. I have a friend of mine who’s worked on a bunch of reality TV shows and yeah, he’s definitely confirmed that it’s staged, it’s edited, it’s manipulated to bring about a completely different story or even to create a story where there might not have been one originally.
Adam:
Wait, wait. You mean all those romances that the Kardashians are having, they’re not real? Well, it’s true we had 72-hour marriages. It’s not exactly real.
Beau:
You didn’t think it was real for a second. I don’t know, from my point of view, if people want to believe it’s real. Or what I always thought was it made people feel sort better about their own lives. They’re like, “Well, at least I’m not like Snooki.” Is that a person?
Adam:
Snooki, yes. Jersey Shore.
Travis:
Yeah. Sort of.
Beau:
Yeah. I’m sorry, Snooki. I have no idea who you are. I just know that’s a name associated with reality TV.
Adam:
Snooki is a big deal. Not just for those of us in New Jersey, but across the country.
Beau:
So I guess some of them are written, manufactured. Maybe all of them are written and manufactured, or the producers are definitely, they have a story they want to tell or they’re like, “Hey, do you know what would be really funny, is if we tell so-and-so, so-and-so couldn’t get there because his father was busy with his mother, or whatever.” Yeah. But that is, if you think about it, good storytelling is at the very heart of a scam.
Adam:
Oh, totally. These con artists, they are raconteurs to the nth degree.
Beau:
What is a raconteur, exactly?
Adam:
A storyteller.
Travis:
I thought it was a French raccoon.
Adam:
That’s right.
Beau:
So the other thing is fear, right? Primal instincts. This is something that scammers really go for. And as I understand it, reality TV producers are pushing all those primal instinct buttons too.
Adam:
Oh no, totally. Love, hate, anger, throwing things at each other, smashing plates, ratting each other out. I love it. It’s a passion.
Beau:
I have your password. I have your boyfriend. Got your nose.
Adam:
I want your gift cards. Send them to me.
Beau:
Yeah. If you want your boyfriend back, you will send me an iTunes gift card. My understanding is that all the people on these shows aren’t necessarily the most upstanding citizens on earth.
Adam:
Well, there are certain, shall we say, allegations, some of which have been proven, some-
Beau:
Has anyone gone to jail, or is it just not that kind of thing?
Adam:
Wait, let’s not give anything away. That’s what we’re going to talk about on today’s show. Welcome to What the Hack, a show about hackers, scammers and the people they go after. I’m Adam, the voice of cyber reason.
Beau:
I’m Beau, the voice of cyber chaos, unreason and stupidity.
Travis:
And I’m Travis, the cyber voice of impending doom.
Beau:
And on today’s show, who are we talking to, Adam?
Adam:
We have Caitlin Brodnick of ScamWow. And she’s got some very interesting things to talk about.
We’re welcoming back Caitlin Brodnick from ScamWow. And you may recall that the first time we spoke with her, she was telling us about a speaker scam that she got involved with a while back.
Beau:
I totally remember that. That was insane.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Hi, thank you for having me. I love this show and I reference your show a lot on my show.
Beau:
Oh, do you?
Caitlin Brodnick:
Oh, constantly. Constantly. I’m always talking about you guys and I’m saying, “They’ve covered it really well. If you want to go over background checks, you want to go over everything,” I’m constantly telling people to listen to you.
Adam:
Aww.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yeah.
Beau:
And I am constantly looking at any kind of email I get for professional services as scams.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yes, you should.
Adam:
So we don’t have any particular scams to talk about this week so we’re going to do some dish. We’re going to talk amongst ourselves about some really good scams. And Caitlin, since you are the chairman of the ScamWow committee, no one more appropriate to talk about this than you. So what’s the newest, latest, most fun, crazy scams that you’ve seen?
Caitlin Brodnick:
I’m honored. I’m so honored for this position, because what’s interesting too, with ScamWow we do have a community where people are emailing us constantly. I can pull up my email and show you all of the recent scams that people are giving me daily that they’re coming across, which is so exciting. But I also have the most recent scam involving the Real Housewives, which are sort of interesting. These scams, everyone talks about the Real Housewife scams from the angle of the person who scammed, so the housewife. She’s so rich, she’s so opulent, let’s look at her and all the stuff. She created basically a fraudulent world to get on a show. It happens with every single time a Real Housewife creates a scam. And there’s lots of Real Housewives that also happen to be scammers, so it’s a pattern we see.
Beau:
Okay, okay, wait. You got to slow down. You’ve got to slow down and I’ll tell you why. Because I… And you’re going to freak out about this, Caitlin, I’ve never watched the show.
Caitlin Brodnick:
That’s okay.
Beau:
But this is freaking me out. So Adam, you’ve watched the show.
Adam:
I think I’ve seen little snippets of Real Housewives of New York and Beverly Hills.
Beau:
And Travis, how about you? Do they have a Real Housewives of Star Trek or Star Wars?
Travis:
Oh, come on. Although admittedly, I would totally watch that if that was a show.
Beau:
I don’t understand the scam thing, though, Adam. Are Housewives, are these fraudulent? They’re not even married, or what’s the deal?
Caitlin Brodnick:
No, no. Okay. I’ll back up. So Housewives are shady bitches, usually.
Adam:
Caitlin, don’t sugar coat it, whatever you-
Caitlin Brodnick:
You know what? I won’t. They’re doing so well, they’re fine, and they have been called so many worse other things. I actually think they’re fascinating and I love their rise and demise. And I think all of it is interesting. But they are bizarre women who are very opulent. They have usually a lot of money. At one point in their life they had, or have not been married. That is not actually a qualification.
Beau:
You don’t have to be married.
Caitlin Brodnick:
You don’t have to be married. Mainly, it’s a socialite who behaves like someone who doesn’t need to be fully employed. That’s sort of the concept of the Stepford Wife, like the woman who can go around exercising and arranging her potted plants if she feels like it, but has enough money to not do anything.
Beau:
Okay. So you’re talking about… These could be just a trust fund brat then.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Connected, yes, but connected with a celebrity element to it, with that they have a million billion followers, that their parents are super rich and that’s how their trust fund, that their parents were famous, that they married into a famous family. There’s something about the connection with Hollywood as well. Some are ex-actresses or still trying to act. And then on top of that, you have women that have very low threshold for explosion and getting into fights. So you have women that very quickly can just off the cuff just have an eruption of emotion, feeling tears, yelling, wine glass throwing. Those are the qualifications that they look for.
Travis:
So speaking of them being actresses, or at least connected to actresses somehow, how much of the wild behavior you see on these shows are real? It kind of seems like there’s a WWE element to it of pro wrestling.
Caitlin Brodnick:
I’m sure. I’m sure that there is there. And a lot of these shows, a lot of any reality shows… I’m very obsessed with Love Island right now, which guys, I cannot recommend enough.
Beau:
Wait, what is Love Island?
Caitlin Brodnick:
Oh, Love Island, right now on Hulu. It’s the UK version. It’s season eight. So Love Island’s been going on for a bunch of seasons in the UK. It is the most tragic, but well-done reality show about dating that I have seen yet. So usually with dating shows, and we’ll go back to the Real Housewives, but usually with dating shows, and this is relating to them, you feel that the producers are putting their hands in it a lot. There’s a lot of cooks in the kitchen. Somebody will come out of a “scene” and say a line that you know was fed to them by a producer to start a fight with another person. In that case, it feels very fake and done up. But I was watching Love Island, and you only have to start it like episode 22, because there’s like 70 episodes. There’s so many episodes per season because they film it every single day.
So you only have to start at episode 22, season eight. And these young adults are so genuine and kind and thoughtful with their feelings, and also just as ignorant and slutty and ridiculous as you want from your reality TV. But they’re so sensitive, they communicate their feelings. I cannot recommend it enough. One guy leaves because he’s too emotional and he feels that it’s not healthy for his mental health, and so everybody has to address mental health on the show. It’s so well done, and not at all like Real Housewives. Real Housewives is not that way.
Beau:
That sounds like a fourth wall broken, Truman Show kind of nice.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Oh, it’s nice.
Adam:
I mean, Beau and I express our feelings to Travis on these shows often, so could we classify as…
Caitlin Brodnick:
Sure.
Travis:
That makes me feel uncomfortable every time.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Never stop doing that.
Adam:
We could be Pod Husbands, the Pod Husbands of the US.
Caitlin Brodnick:
You should.
Beau:
The slightly not so desperate pod husbands of the ecosphere.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Well, see, that’s where you guys would be doing a great job, but that’s what it feels like the Real Housewives don’t do. I’m sorry, I was referencing Love Island as a really good example of how people are sharing their feelings in crazy situations. The Real Housewives, Travis, as you were saying, as much of it is true or false, what it feels more to me is that it’s all being provoked.
Beau:
It sounds to me like we’re talking about ugly people doing ugly things. And I don’t see the attraction there.
Caitlin Brodnick:
It’s gratifying to a lot of people because-
Beau:
Because then you say, “Oh, then I’m not that ugly and I’m not that mean.”
Caitlin Brodnick:
Exactly. This is also pulling way back, but culturally I think Americans rely on reality television to feel intelligence. Because I think if you watch reality television and you watch these shows and producers and editors making fun of how ridiculous someone else is just living their life simply…
Beau:
It makes you seem better.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yeah. You feel better. It’s a whole thing.
Beau:
It’s just that-
Adam:
Yeah. It’s compared to that life, my life is a dream.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Completely.
Travis:
Well, isn’t that a way that a lot of scammers operate, though, is in terms of trying to appeal to people?
Beau:
Exactly, but also to get you off balance and make you feel insecure. “You’re ugly and your husband’s cheating. Your fat husband’s cheating on you. By the way, I have some fat husband cheating on you spray that will solve the problem for only $30.”
Caitlin Brodnick:
But that’s not even what they’re scamming, guys. That’s what’s so crazy. So what they’re scamming on the show, to appear relevant. And so they’re keeping up with the Joneses, they’re keeping up the plastic surgery. So if one woman doesn’t have wrinkles on her head, no one can have wrinkles on her head, so everyone’s getting the plastic surgery. But their scams that they’re doing on the side have nothing to do with being Housewives and that’s actually why they’re getting in trouble.
The scam I wanted to talk about today, there’s a couple. The scam I wanted to go over today was the Jen Shah. She’s Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, which is only in its second and maybe filming its third season right now. It’s brand new. And one of the requirements to be on these shows is you have to be someone who lives this affluent life. So what’s very interesting to me is I do in my heart of hearts believe a lot of FBI agents watch the Real Housewives. And this is why, because there’s so many times where you’ve seen a incredibly rich woman blunting her wealth and the finances just don’t add up. So Jen Shah is an example, that her husband was a college football coach and that’s it. And she’s living in multimillion dollar homes, spending ridiculous $20,000 on parties, brand new Lamborghinis, an insane amount of wealth that it would appear she’s behaving like a Kardashian.
Beau:
So how do you know that daddy or mommy didn’t give him that dough?
Caitlin Brodnick:
Because she has said she’s come up from her bootstraps. They have pictures of her family, pictures of his family. There’s a lot of origin stories with all these Housewives and they really want to show you they’re just like you, but somehow they’ve become incredible rich phenoms.
Beau:
Oh, so there’s a ton of mobsters out there.
Adam:
Well, they nailed these people from the Real Housewives of New Jersey mobsters. There was some prison time [inaudible 00:16:44]
Beau:
Was it a mob story, Adam?
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yes.
Adam:
I’m not exactly sure if it was a mob story, but there were certainly some… There’s a question of financial conduct, let’s put it that way.
Caitlin Brodnick:
It was the same sort of hubris that a lot of these ridiculously rich, out of touch people have that they believe that just them and them alone don’t have to pay taxes. There’s this concept at a certain wealth bracket that I’ve noticed, or that combined with the Republican side, that it’s not fair, why me? I’ve made so much money. I want to keep it all. Why should I give back to a community that has basically served me until now? So the issue with the Real Housewives of New Jersey is that Joe did something that was seemingly simple. It’s actually a pretty simple crime that he constantly changed his company and LLCs around and put different names in his name and his wife’s name in different bank accounts to thin out his money basically and make it appear that he doesn’t need to pay as many taxes as he does. And so if he would start a new company, there is this loophole if you start a company, in the first five years you don’t have to pay back taxes. There’s something with these new startups.
Adam:
Well, no, no. You’re allowed to deduct legitimate expenses.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yeah. Right. So they would deduct all of this stuff and they would sort of take… They declared bankruptcy, they sort of declared all of these weird ways. They’ve also doctored documents. They just flat out didn’t pay taxes. They had fraudulent things. When they were asking for loans from other companies to refinance their home, they would lie on that loan application. So it was a lot of documents and monetary forms that they had lied on that Joe had done, and basically under this auspice of, “Everybody does it. We all do it. It’s how you get around.” It’s like, it’s just business, baby.
Adam:
I mean, yeah, that’s the theory, but that’s not exactly accurate.
Beau:
I feel like the only person I’ve heard anyone say did this, I’ve heard whatever stuff here and there, but the… Oh gosh, it’s going to get us a bad review on Apple, but still do it, I don’t care, we can take it. Donald Trump. That’s what Rachel Maddow was saying he did.
Caitlin Brodnick:
That’s what they did. That’s what the Giudices did.
Adam:
Well, do you see what’s going on now in Spain with Shakira? They’re talking about that they want to send her to prison because they say she owes eight million in taxes. Again, with the IRS, as long as you are honest about your gross income, you can argue about deductions.
Beau:
Gross income. Wow. So much money. That’s gross you make so much money. And by the way, Shakira, if she deserves it, she should have to pay the eight million. Screw her. But is it gross, Adam? Gross gross or-
Adam:
The whole theory is you take all of the revenue that comes in, hence gross income. And then you can come up with adjusted gross income, which has to do with your deductions. But the bottom line is as long as a deduction is within the realm of reality, you can fight with them about it. Worst case, you pay interest, maybe a penalty. But do not mess around with the money that you bring in. They have no sense of humor about that.
Caitlin Brodnick:
And also don’t make fake companies, because that’s also what Joe did. He made a bunch of fake companies.
Beau:
What kind of fake companies? Was it a mouse trap company?
Caitlin Brodnick:
No, I wish. I want to say he would open something in his wife’s name or he’d say, “Now we’re doing this.” They would create these random companies and put other people in their family as owners of the company.
Beau:
Travis does that all the time. Travis has 18 shell companies that he just sells nothing through.
Travis:
Yeah. Yeah. My secret’s out.
Caitlin Brodnick:
I want to be a part of it.
Travis:
Recording this on the Grand Caymans.
Adam:
Travis is the most popular man in the Cayman Islands too, we know.
Caitlin Brodnick:
That’s the key, offshore bank accounts, guys. Yeah. So they got caught and they did serve prison time, they each served it. And Teresa said throughout the time that she did not realize what she was signing and she just signed it as being a good wife and doing what her husband said. Now, the argument is that she was benefiting from all of this and was showcasing her incredibly lavish lifestyle weekly on a show about her personal life and how much money they’re… The guy was a contractor. It didn’t seem like stereotypically they would be making as much money as they did. And so she very clearly benefited from it.
Adam:
Just for our listeners, there’s also something known as the innocent spouse rule, which if you are an innocent spouse, you are most likely off the hook. But anyway, we digress. So you were telling us about another version of Desperate Housewives and another scam.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yes. So that was one, that was from the tax evasion. So that was, again, something that is not involving a Housewife scamming you. The TV show in general and [inaudible 00:22:12] back of scamming people to care about them is just its own scam. But the other scam that they are doing on the side is this woman Jen Shah was a part of this company that you would never assume, it never at one point did ever come any mixture with her life in Real Housewives, besides the fact that it was fully funding it. And so what she was doing, and she had done this for a very long time in multiple different companies, they would work with a telemarketing company, a scam company. They would call, they would do cold calls, they would do scam calls, but then also they would offer services like website development and business development and all of these things that had monthly occurring fees, set up people for that and then not ever give them those services, not ever deliver on that.
And then when somebody would call to cancel their subscription or to get it off, they would have an entire team to send them around by cell phones and rigmarole, did everything they could to make it incredibly complicated to cancel this service. And that was somebody that was an expert in that and multiple experts on these [inaudible 00:23:27] that were doing it. And then they would also use and sort of prey on people that maybe weren’t the sharpest mentally or weren’t the most savvy. And a lot of people were at the time seniors over 55, who most didn’t even have a computer, but they were selling computer services.
Travis:
So, sorry, just to clarify here. Were these robocalls? Was this people actually calling to directly scam?
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yeah, I think there could have been some robocalls involved, but the part that it’s really they’re getting in trouble for right now is that’s sort of just like a call center. I do think because they did hire people and there were people on their down line and there were employees in this company, multiple people. So what would happen is after they made this connection with somebody who maybe is less than savvy when it comes to the program that they’re selling or even how to handle a scam caller or to be on a scam list, then the way she made her money, she would sell her list of people and names and personal information to other scam companies and then make money on that. And then she would make money on what they would make. So she was on a line of then other scam companies.
Adam:
She was charged with conspiracy to commit wire fraud in connection with telemarketing and conspiracy to commit money laundering.
Beau:
But is that a scam, just a straight up scam, Adam? Or is that a “Buy this cloth that will make anything sparkle no matter what it is”?
Adam:
Well, that’s one. The other thing is just if you’re selling something that doesn’t actually exist, that is certainly a scam.
Beau:
That’s a scam. That’s not a business, right?
Caitlin Brodnick:
No. And selling people’s personal information without them knowing. That was pretty predatory, though.
Adam:
So this is almost like I’m going to create a business that’s going to scam you and then I’m going to take the list of everyone I scammed and give it to another business, so that business, which I also own a piece of, can try to scam them as well.
Beau:
I get it. But Adam, isn’t it interesting that the act of selling the information, that’s legal.
Adam:
Well, it’s legal provided the people know…
Beau:
They’ve opted.
Adam:
… that you’re selling that information.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yes. Without the information that-
Beau:
So on your scam, selling the thing that doesn’t exist, you have a privacy policy that says you do understand when you buy this thing that we’re robbing you right now. But you understand that your information can be sold to a third party.
Travis:
And no one reads privacy policies.
Adam:
No one, no one, because it’s usually in 27th grade English and mouse print. But again, a lot of situations are where a company exists, but it doesn’t deliver what it’s saying it can deliver.
Travis:
I think one question about how this is structured, though, is how far down does the scam go? Are the people doing the calls aware of the fact that they’re participating in something really sketchy?
Caitlin Brodnick:
Well, that’s the thing. What’s really funny, too, is that Jen Shah, on her show, she has her assistant, her assistant Stuart Smith. And the entire time on the show, she keeps saying, “You’re my right hand man. I can’t do anything without you. You’re my number one. You’re my lead guy.” And he pled guilty to this case and she was pleading innocent until just recently. And so he was going to be called on her trial to go against her. And so she finally just came out and said that she is in fact guilty, because I do think there were a lot of people involved in this that took plea bargains or took other sort of… That they had knowledge of it, that it wasn’t truthful and wasn’t fair. And they are working with the authorities to get out of situations or help indict other people.
Adam:
Well, here’s the actual wording from the US attorney, Audrey Strauss, and she said this in a press release: “Jennifer Shah, who portrays herself as a wealthy and successful business person, allegedly generated and sold lead lists of innocent individuals for other members of their scheme to repeatedly scam. In actual reality, and as alleged, the so-called business opportunities pushed on the victims and their co-conspirators were just fraudulent schemes motivated by greed to steal people’s money. Now these defendants face criminal time.”
Beau:
Scammers, straight up scammers. But so watching this show, Caitlin, I feel like you have really good radar. Could you get the sense that she was a little crooked?
Caitlin Brodnick:
You guys, honestly, I got the sense that she needed to be medicated, and that’s a very rude thing to say. It’s so rude to say that before anything else, I was like, I don’t know how this woman got her money. Women get their money all kinds of ways. Men get their money all kinds of ways. You can be a perfectly wonderful, respectable person who dates lots of people and asks them for money and then has a bank account because of all your dates. I don’t know. I don’t know what people do. But it did seem that there was something off with her that she was always about to snap or about to freak out.
And looking at that now, if you’re a part of a decade long scheme… This has been going on for 15 years, they’ve been investigating, because she was a part of multiple companies that changed their names. At one point she was one of the people that was on the calling floor, I believe, and then she just rose higher and higher in the ranks. So when you have been doing this for 15 years, you are going to be on an edge. There’s going to be an edge to you. There’s going to be a tension. I don’t think the human brain and body can sustain that pressure for very long.
Beau:
But what a dumb-dumb to be like, “Oh, I’m doing all this illegal stuff. I know, let’s go on television.”
Caitlin Brodnick:
That’s what we can’t figure out. Same with the Giudices, same with [inaudible 00:29:26] and Keith. We can’t figure out Erika Jayne, her husband. It’s a huge case. He took from all of his victims. He was a huge [inaudible 00:29:35]
Beau:
Hiding in plain sight. You’re hiding in plain sight. That’s all you can figure.
Travis:
Well, there’s also that association with the self-aggrandizement that a lot of scammers, I think, a lot of the people who engage in that sort of activity are the ones who just have to have that much of a sense of ego that they feel okay about taking things from people.
Caitlin Brodnick:
They deserve it.
Beau:
Adam, send the squad to Travis. Travis, you’re not supposed to say what we’re doing on the show.
Travis:
Okay. Did I just give away the part?
Caitlin Brodnick:
I really love how Travis just gets down to basics. Like, guys…
Beau:
My joke was bad. But Adam, he just outed us. I think it’s time for Travis to go bye-bye.
Travis:
Right.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yeah.
Adam:
So we’ll just have to start a fight with Travis, where he starts throwing wine glasses and stuff like that.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Please.
Beau:
Oh, but the thing is that’s interesting about this is that scams, actually a good scammer is a good storyteller.
Adam:
Yeah, that’s true.
Beau:
And so when you get to all of these arguably, maybe, possibly, allegedly sociopathic people who are on these shows, not to specify anyone in particular because I don’t want to get sued…
Adam:
Because we have no idea who it might be.
Beau:
Might be. I mean, the few people I know who could be described that way personally are excellent storytellers, which is another way of saying they’re good liars.
Caitlin Brodnick:
They’re great party guests. They’re great hosts. You go in there and they create an environment and a moment that you’re living in. I completely agree.
Adam:
Think of the most successful scammers, whether it’s catfishing or it’s any one of… Crypto scams, things like that. It’s all about making you believe. Buy the dream.
Caitlin Brodnick:
And also it’s about the fact that their dream and your dream work together, that really these scammers are only successful if you believe that they are going to get you what you want if you pay money for the service that they’re offering, or if you pay into their facade that they’re living. Because in fact you can’t exist without scamming them. You’re not sitting at home, making a product of beading jewelry and selling it and doing a simple business. You’re doing a business based on the fact that other people are required to depend on you in that way.
Beau:
So let’s talk for a second about something we can control, because we can’t control the plate flying across the room. We can’t control-
Adam:
The flatware flying.
Beau:
Or the desire to watch it, but we can be careful about getting scammed and telemarketing is a great example. One of the things that I do when I get a phone call passively when I’m answering the phone is I never say the word yes. And I don’t because of voice recognition programs. I never want to give my voice imprint to a scammer. So when I get a call I don’t recognize, I answer the phone, “Who is this?” Because you can’t use that. You can’t use it to scam me in a voice identification scam. Adam, what’s something that you do when you suspect you have a telemarketing scam happening to you?
Adam:
I hang up, as opposed to Beau who likes to engage the telemarketing scammer and try to get their phone number and try to get them on our show.
Caitlin Brodnick:
I love that, though. You should. I want to know what they say too.
Beau:
I always want to know what they say. And then I’ve asked, but it’s sad, Caitlin. I got the okay to offer one of these dudes five grand to be on the show because we thought it would be worth that much. People would listen to the show forever.
Adam:
Thomas, our friend Thomas, who-
Beau:
All he wanted was his 30 bucks.
Adam:
That’s it.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Okay. Well, you know why?
Adam:
It’s like anything more than 30 was dirty as far as he was concerned.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Well, they have somebody else that they’re working under. I don’t believe any of these call scammers are working alone. So they have to then justify that they gave that correct amount so then they get to their overhead and then the people under them. Because if you suddenly-
Beau:
It’s a dangerous world too. The podcast Reply All went to India to actually track down one of these telemarketers, and their life was in peril the whole time.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Of course it was. The thing too is the scammers are not great. And you don’t want somebody stealing from you but I don’t think that many of these scammers have the same caricature or the same idea that they’re all these snake people that were just born and they’re awful people and they just want to go out to get you. Usually, it’s because they’re in a situation, they can’t afford healthcare. There’s something happening to them in their family. It’s a dire situation.
And in case they must react this way. Also, a lot of companies are not paying very well, during COVID a lot of companies shut down. People are worried about feeding their families and they turn to a big business that says, “Don’t even worry about it. Americans don’t even notice it, it’s like, what’s 20 bucks? It’s fine. Everybody spends 20 bucks to go to Starbucks.” They have it reasoned in their mind that their survival is based on doing this type of business. I feel very sad for them.
Beau:
So I’m hearing Adam sense here. Adam sense always is the best sense on these things. You just let it go to voicemail, Adam, that’s it? That’s the answer?
Caitlin Brodnick:
That’s what I do.
Adam:
Every so often, if it looks like a vaguely familiar number, or I say to myself it’s going to be another political call, but let’s find out who this is. And oftentimes it is, of late, a political call. Again, everyone’s saying, “I need 15 minutes of your time to tell you how I’m the greatest person that ever walked the planet and you need to give me money.” But generally, if I feel in some way that it’s going to go in a direction I’m not interested in, I just let it go to voicemail. Oftentimes they don’t even leave a message.
Beau:
Yeah. No, that’s true because they want to get you in real time. And my sense is my scams, what am I getting these days? Not getting anything really good. Nobody’s really-
Adam:
Well, Travis, we have to work on that for Beau, because we need something really good for-
Travis:
Challenge accepted.
Adam:
Hey, Caitlin. This was great. Thank you so much for joining us. [inaudible 00:36:29] I hope again.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Thanks, guys, I hope. I had the best time. I love hanging out with you guys. I just adore it.
Adam:
We’ll do more and thank you for sharing real Real Housewife scams.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Yes.
Beau:
Yes. Yeah, the next time we’ll come over to your kitchen.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Thank God. I love you guys. Thank you so much.
Travis:
Thank you.
Caitlin Brodnick:
Bye.
Travis:
All right.
Adam:
Bye.
Beau:
Bye now.
Travis:
Take care.
Beau:
I feel positively filthy.
Travis:
At least you didn’t get a glass of wine thrown in your face.
Beau:
Personally, I don’t watch reality TV so I have a hard time. I feel bad for everybody.
Adam:
Well, you understand that. We don’t need reality TV. We have you out chopping wood, beating back bears, boxing with raccoons.
Beau:
Nobody cares. Nobody, I swear. Although Guinevere did post a video of me with my chainsaw, with my stupid hair and everything. And a friend of mine who is actually a tradesman wrote to her. “It’s so good. He’s the perfect mix of stern art dad, Einstein [inaudible 00:38:14] weirdness and Texas Chainsaw Massacre.” I was like, Christ, I’m going to shave all my hair off.
Adam:
I was thinking more of Leonard DiCaprio in Revenant, myself, but hey.
Beau:
Oh, well.
Adam:
And it’s after he’s been clawed by the bear.
Beau:
Do we have a tin foil swan this week?
Travis:
We do, actually.
Beau:
Well, Adam, what is the tin foil swan?
Adam:
Our paranoid takeaway that’ll help keep you safe online.
Travis:
Well, we’ve spoken a lot about freezing your credit on the show, and I’m a lot less credit savvy, obviously, than Adam. And I think for a lot of people freezing their credit sounds like a pretty daunting or overwhelming process. So I thought it might be helpful just to get a quick run through on exactly what you need to do to freeze your credit.
Adam:
The great news about freezing your credit, and Beau has been giving us all a tutorial on it, but the great thing about freezing your credit is it’s free. It didn’t used to be free. You used to have to pay 10 to freeze and 10 to thaw. The whole point of freezing your credit is that while your credit’s frozen, nobody, including you, can get access to it. And this is a great way to stop people from trying to open up accounts using your information.
Beau:
New account fraud is a very, very big crime out there. And this will stop you, but you have to remember, when you have your credit frozen, you are going to have to unfreeze it when you go to do something, like get a new phone account or set up a utility, all that stuff requires it. But it is very easy these days to unfreeze and freeze your credit accounts.
Adam:
You have to go to each of the three credit reporting agencies. They all have different little twists for how you do it but in the end, it’s pretty much the same. You confirm information that you’re really you and then you can put a freeze on your credit, which means no one, including you, can get access to it, unless and until you use either a pin or a passcode to thaw it.
Beau:
And remember, when you’re unfreezing your credit, it’s a good idea to ask which credit agency is being used because you can just unfreeze that one. Most places that you’re going, like if you’re buying a new car, ask them, “Which one are you going to pull?” They’ll tell you. Unfreeze that one.
Travis:
So when you’re thawing your credit and trying to get a mortgage, can you do it from just one agency or do you need to get it from multiple ones?
Adam:
No, if you’re getting a mortgage, you have to thaw multiple credit reporting agencies. However, if you’re getting any other kind of loan, just find out from the creditor what particular credit reporting agency that they’re pulling the report from. That’s the one that you thaw.
Beau:
Yep. And that’s the tin foil swan this week. Thank you for listening to What the Hack this week. We hope you enjoyed the show and maybe you learned something.
Travis:
Would be great if you could give us a rating and a review.
Beau:
Why?
Travis:
Well, in addition to making Adam very, very happy, it helps people find the show.
Beau:
What the Hack with Adam Levin is a production of Loud Tree Media.
Adam:
It’s produced by Andrew Steven, the man with two first names.
Travis:
You can find us online at loudtreemedia.com and on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at Adam K. Levin.
Speaker 5:
Loud Tree.
