Adam Levin:
(Singing)
Beau Friedlander:
Whoa. Wow. Wow, just wow. I’m going to try and calm this down. Travis?
Travis Taylor:
Yeah?
Beau Friedlander:
What’s up?
Travis Taylor:
Not much.
Beau Friedlander:
Excellent. What’s going on with Adam, man?
Adam Levin:
I’m feeling good. I’m feeling fine.
Travis Taylor:
Caffeine, maybe?
Beau Friedlander:
No.
Adam Levin:
Throw some beer in with my wine.
Beau Friedlander:
I think he’s practicing for his new show that I’m trying to talk him into, which is Jews Read the News.
Adam Levin:
Hello? No, it’s not. It’s Jews Sing the News.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, I’m such a dope. Go ahead. Sing the news. What happened today, Adam?
Adam Levin:
Another day of inflation. It seems gas we’ll soon have to ration.
Beau Friedlander:
It doesn’t rhyme.
Adam Levin:
Things are not going well with the nation.
Beau Friedlander:
That does rhyme.
Adam Levin:
I think it’s time for another libation.
Beau Friedlander:
Wow. Nicely done, Adam. So what did happen this week? Besides Adam clearly losing his mind?
Travis Taylor:
Someone stole my recycling bin. That was a weird one.
Adam Levin:
What?
Travis Taylor:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
No.
Travis Taylor:
Yeah.
Adam Levin:
Scandal.
Beau Friedlander:
Did they just have a cooler new one and you made yours disappear?
Travis Taylor:
I have absolutely no idea. They were really noisy about it. So, yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
No. I meant, was it a scam on your part? You know how sometimes they do a reissue, and then people who move to your neighborhood who are new, they get the nice new recycled containers and you still are stuck with your crappy old one?
Travis Taylor:
No, I hadn’t thought about that actually.
Beau Friedlander:
So, this one legit got stolen?
Travis Taylor:
Yeah.
Beau Friedlander:
Where’d it go?
Travis Taylor:
I have absolutely no idea.
Adam Levin:
If it was stolen, how would he know where it went, Beau?
Beau Friedlander:
Hey, you can find these things. Did you put signs up? Did you say, “Have you seen this recycling bin?”
Adam Levin:
Wait. Are you the guy putting up the pictures all over the telephone poles, asking people if they saw a recycling unit?
Beau Friedlander:
Have you seen this used match book? I put up all kinds of signs. Have you seen my napkins?
Beau Friedlander:
Speaking of recycling, we got any good password related stories this week?
Travis Taylor:
They’ve found 24 billion credentials, being usernames and passwords, on the dark web.
Adam Levin:
That’s Dr. Evil Pinky to the list.
Beau Friedlander:
I knew you were going there.
Adam Levin:
The billions of passwords, billions.
Beau Friedlander:
I thought you were giving a list of who found them, Minion A, Minion B, Adam, Adam’s buddy. You don’t play golf, so, I don’t know where your buddy’s from. From the gym. Adam’s big on the gym these days.
Adam Levin:
Yeah, I’m big on them. I pass by them. I think about them often. I occasionally show up. So my gym, every time you walk in, they have a new question. My son and I try to figure out the question. Most of the time we get it wrong. But every so often we get it right. Here’s one for you. What’s the fastest muscle in your body?
Beau Friedlander:
The fastest muscle in your body.
Travis Taylor:
I’m not sure, but if I had to guess, I’d say the heart.
Adam Levin:
No.
Beau Friedlander:
No. I’m going to say the eyelid muscle.
Adam Levin:
Close. It’s the eye.
Beau Friedlander:
That’s not a muscle.
Adam Levin:
Well, that’s the question and that was the answer.
Beau Friedlander:
Damn.
Andrew Steven:
Weren’t we talking about passwords?
Adam Levin:
We were.
Beau Friedlander:
I have to say this is the first time that our producer, Andrew Steven, has had to break the wall of his studio in order to get us back on course. We’re clearly suffering from some sort of almost mid-summer cuckoo bean illness. Let’s get on target here, on focus. I can’t even think.
Adam Levin:
Wait.
Beau Friedlander:
On the bean.
Adam Levin:
Let’s roll the tape back. Cuckoo bean?
Travis Taylor:
I was wondering about that one.
Beau Friedlander:
Cuckoo bean. What’s wrong with cuckoo bean?
Adam Levin:
What is a cuckoo bean?
Beau Friedlander:
It’s your head, man. A bean is a head, and cuckoo is what you are. Cuckoo bean.
Adam Levin:
I take refence at that.
Beau Friedlander:
That’s not even a word. I take you as reference for that.
Adam Levin:
So, can you imagine 24 billion exposed passwords?
Beau Friedlander:
There’s not 24. But wait a second, there’s not 24 billion people on the planet.
Adam Levin:
That’s correct. But you have lots of people who use multiple really stupid passwords.
Beau Friedlander:
Like ha ha ha ha?
Adam Levin:
Or one, two, three, four, five, six.
Travis Taylor:
Or just password.
Beau Friedlander:
A password that a lot of children use because like their parents, they have not this lightest inkling as to how dangerous a bad password can be. So, the password will just be six zeros in a row.
Travis Taylor:
It’s definitely not that people haven’t been told repeatedly not to use weak passwords.
Adam Levin:
Because the attitude is, “It’ll never happen to me, so whatever password I wish to use, like hello.” They’re talking about we’re going to a password-less future.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah, I think it’s a good move.
Adam Levin:
In the moment, we’re at a mindless present when it comes to passwords.
Beau Friedlander:
100%.
Travis Taylor:
I’m still skeptical that we’re ever going to fully do away with the password. People have been saying that we’re heading to a password-less future for decades at this point, and it’s still sticking around.
Beau Friedlander:
Okay, so what would it look like? Let’s talk about that for a moment. Do you have… I know that Apple and Google and several entities have said they would like to move in that direction. How would it work?
Travis Taylor:
One of the big ones that they want to use is for facial recognition.
Beau Friedlander:
I already use it. That’s really going to be useful while Covid’s boping around.
Adam Levin:
Except when Beau finally shaves his beard, then it will say, “Who are you?”
Beau Friedlander:
No, actually, originally identity, and this is really a good little piece of information. I forget what the system was called, but it was the first kind of identity that was used in a widespread way, was based on body measurements. And there were certain measurements like the length from your hand to your shoulder and around your head, a few other measurements, that they used on prisoners to identify them, because you couldn’t fake it. You couldn’t fake those particular measurements and the same goes for facial recognition now. So my beard doesn’t matter so long as my eyes stay relatively in the same place and my nose stays in the same place. It can still recognize me even with the beard on. So Adam, when you get those funny glasses with the big nose and the mustache, they can still tell who you are.
Adam Levin:
Well, actually what I’m most excited about is you remembered what we wrote in our book.
Beau Friedlander:
It’s true. That is something that we wrote. So it is sort of engraved in my head. You can find out more in Swiped, which has a password I can never remember.
Adam Levin:
The book?
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. The book that I co-wrote with you, I don’t remember the password ever.
Adam Levin:
We had a password for the book we wrote.
Beau Friedlander:
Did I say password?
Travis Taylor:
Yep.
Adam Levin:
You did.
Beau Friedlander:
I need to go to bed. I meant subtitle.
Adam Levin:
How to protect yourself on a world full of scammers, fishers and identity thieves.
Beau Friedlander:
All right, Travis, what’s the subtitle of the book?
Travis Taylor:
How to protect yourself in a world of scammers, fishers, and identity thieves.
Adam Levin:
No, a world full of scammers.
Beau Friedlander:
See, I can never remember it either. I mean for years now and I cannot remember it.
Adam Levin:
That’s okay. Once I was explaining, I said, “How to protect yourself in a world full of fishers, scammers, and identity thieves.” And someone said, “You don’t even remember the subtitle to your own book?” Welcome to What the Hack, a show about hackers, scammers, and the people they go after. I’m Adam, cyber scamurai.
Beau Friedlander:
I’m Beau, cyber dustpan.
Travis Taylor:
And I’m Travis, cyber geisha.
Beau Friedlander:
I feel like the object that doesn’t match.
Travis Taylor:
Yeah, and I heard samurai, I was assuming you were going to go for ninja or something.
Beau Friedlander:
No, just dustpan.
Adam Levin:
And today we hear how COVID, unemployment, and a Brad Pitt movie changed the life of Abby Sturgiss. So today we want to welcome to the show Abby Sturgiss, who is dating my nephew. Terrific woman, a New Yorker originally, and then her life took an interesting turn based on a movie.
Abby:
Well, I was born in Upstate New York and my dad actually saw the movie A River Runs Through It.
Beau Friedlander:
Now hold on, there’s lots of rivers that run through Upstate New York. Where in upstate New York were you from?
Abby:
Well, I was born in Albany. But my…
Beau Friedlander:
A river definitely runs through that.
Abby:
But my family’s in Johnstown, in Gloversville too.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, nice.
Abby:
Yeah. So he saw the movie A River Runs Through It, which is filmed in Montana and prompted the move for us because he’s a big hunter, fisherman. And yeah, we made the trek across the country and moved to Montana when I was about two years old. So I’ve been there most of my life and have been now in LA for about six years.
Travis Taylor:
How did he pitch the move?
Abby:
I mean, I was a little young to remember.
Travis Taylor:
Right.
Beau Friedlander:
She’s was two, Travis.
Abby:
I was two.
Travis Taylor:
I’m just sort of imagining him coming home from a movie and just being like, “Guess what? We’re moving.”
Beau Friedlander:
Especially when there’s hunting and fishing around Albany, there’s plenty of hunting and fishing around there.
Adam Levin:
He was throwing you a line clearly.
Abby:
Well, I mean the fly fishing was really what got him on the hook, I should say. All the fly fishing in Montana’s a huge deal out there and just the peace and quiet.
Adam Levin:
I’m waiting with baited breath to find out more about your Montana experience. Especially for those of us who are fans of the TV series, Yellowstone, Montana’s become very near and dear to our hearts.
Abby:
Oh, well, Montana is a beautiful place. I thoroughly enjoyed my time living there. I’m so lucky to have grown up in such an amazing place that had everything outdoors from hiking, water sports, skiing, the skiing is phenomenal. Most of my jobs growing up were more outdoors. I worked on Whitefish Mountain Resorts. I did summers at the Aerial Adventure Park. I taught ski instructions seasonally. So, grew up with a very outdoorsy lifestyle. It was a really nice place to live.
Beau Friedlander:
So you worked in Whitefish, so you must be near the Flathead Reservation and out there in the Northwest. Where are you from?
Abby:
So Northern Montana. It’s called Kalispell.
Beau Friedlander:
Kalispell, yeah. Right near Whitefish.
Abby:
Right near Whitefish, 15 minute drive, we’re about 30 minutes from Glacier National Park. Hour from the Canadian border. So it’s very beautiful. Lots of mountains, lakes, rivers, all of it. So it was definitely a beautiful place to grow up. I’m very grateful.
Travis Taylor:
What brought you to LA?
Abby:
Well, growing up in such a small town, very secluded area, there’s more cows than there are people in Montana. So definitely a lot of people, once they graduate high school, want to get out of dodge and they go experience the world. And for me, I started in Denver, loved it, but the market and everything got so crazy. I was like, “Why not live by the coast?” So California had always been something at the top of my mind and great career wise. I was doing eyelash extensions at the time. So I made the move and was fortunate enough to work at some amazing salons here and take some incredible VIP clientele. So, that was the absolute goal. And it was great to accomplish that. And now I’ve transitioned into real estate.
Beau Friedlander:
What made you get out of the business and get into real estate?
Abby:
So there are a lot of physical issues that can come with working such a physically demanding job. So you’re doing very tedious motions for long hours of the day, very repetitive kind of detail work. Typically, what you’ll see in lash artists is the most common kind of physical ailment is going to be carpal tunnel. Before the pandemic hit, I was having to reduce the amount that I worked. And so when the pandemic happened, I definitely took advantage of that break on my body and kind of exploring what other industries I could be interested in that wouldn’t maybe affect my body quite as much
Beau Friedlander:
When the pandemic started, you were making a transition or already thinking about it. And I imagine it’s pretty hard to do eyelash extensions during a pandemic that is transmitted from person to person contact. What did you do?
Abby:
Yes, absolutely. Here in LA, the salons were definitely one of the first things closed down because of the close contact that we come in on a daily basis with our clients. So it affected my industry, specifically, very quickly and abruptly, absolutely. So I was out of work. I even transitioned into receiving unemployment assistance with the pandemic.
Adam Levin:
So now in the state of California, how does the unemployment system work? So as a recipient, how do you get the money?
Abby:
So here in California, they have a portal where we would claim our benefits weekly and have to place in all the info on whether we received any income, et cetera, and do weekly benefits online. And then we received a card through Bank of America that would have those funds transferred through the portal.
Adam Levin:
Is it a credit card or a debit card?
Abby:
It is a debit card. We had a pin number, but it did not have a microchip. It only had the swipe.
Beau Friedlander:
Why is that?
Abby:
I was really interested by that as well. I do not know.
Beau Friedlander:
Do you know, you don’t know why? Adam, you have any thoughts on that? Because the chip is more secure.
Adam Levin:
Oh, the chip is definitely more secure, but a lot of states, even though they are trying to get more technologically advanced, haven’t quite made the complete leap to chip and pin.
Beau Friedlander:
Interesting.
Abby:
Yeah. I was definitely surprised by the lack of chip on our system.
Beau Friedlander:
I know, Abby, I am too.
Abby:
Definitely would’ve come in handy.
Travis Taylor:
And how easy was it to actually start receiving the funds?
Abby:
If I remember correctly, I believe it took a while to get it initially approved. I want to say around a month of waiting and then throughout the process, typically I would get it regularly. There wouldn’t be too much delay, but every once in a while, I think it was had to do with the overwhelming amount of applicants for EDD and whatever money that they had designated for it.
Adam Levin:
By the way, EDD stands for the Economic Development Department of state of California.
Abby:
It slowly started to have issues with people. It would tell me, “Claims have been approved for this week,” but then I wouldn’t get the money in my account. So, little things like that would happen and you’d have to call or email and try to figure out, “Where are these funds? Hey, what’s going on?” So little things like that definitely happened. And usually you could get some sort of contact and resolution around two weeks if there was an issue with that.
Adam Levin:
But it required a lot of holding time, didn’t it?
Abby:
It did.
Adam Levin:
Kind of like your life is passing in front of you.
Abby:
Yes and it definitely grew out. As time progressed, it got harder and harder and more issues started coming up. And it would take longer delays and then people aren’t responding to your emails and questions. So it definitely started a downward spiral with their system and communication with it.
Travis Taylor:
So was the unemployment system sort of broken to begin with or was it just having that many people with losing their jobs due to COVID?
Abby:
Personally, I’m not a hundred percent sure, but I wasn’t on unemployment before the pandemic. From what I read and understood of, when this was happening specifically in California, I do think it was a lot of issue with the way that they dispersed the money and the fraud. From what I understand there was a ton of fraud cases happening on a larger scale. And they kind of took that and punished all the little account holders and everything and it became everybody’s problem that there were huge fraud accounts happening.
Adam Levin:
When you called in, were they responsive to you?
Abby:
No, you would be on hold for days, if not…
Beau Friedlander:
Could you get through to the… those systems where sometimes they just hang up on you?
Abby:
Absolutely. Like I said, in the beginning, they were better about responding, at least via email, you could get some sort of communication and on the EDD portal itself. But when you tried calling, it just progressively got to the point of absolutely, they would hang up. No matter how many times, no matter what time you called, no matter how long you want to hold, it could just hang up at random or it would do it right away. You couldn’t even be on hold. It was so long of that. Especially when I had my fraudulent thing happen, it was at its worst. Absolutely.
Beau Friedlander:
And I recall when this was happening and I was researching it, the only way people could find out anything was just by other recipients talking to each other on Twitter and social media.
Abby:
That’s that’s the only way I knew. I had to go on social media to see if anybody else was going through what I was because I was just getting so many people, thousands and thousands of people, in the exact same situation. “I claimed my benefits. I haven’t gotten anything. They won’t answer the phone. It’s been four plus weeks. I have rent to pay. Nobody’s answering. Nobody’s getting back.” It was constant for so long for so many people,
Speaker 6:
Blanca Martinez, like many other Californians, has a big problem with EDD.
Blanca Martinez:
I was going to do my last certification, but come Monday morning found out that my account was pending.
Speaker 6:
She called the EDD right away. Even though she had been collecting benefits for much of the pandemic, she was at first told she’d need to re-certify her identity. She did so right away. But after further back and forth with EDD, the woman on the other end told her it was more complicated.
Blanca Martinez:
She did mention the words to me that it’s not only proving my identity, that there was fraudulent activity.
Speaker 6:
Blanca says she was told by EDD not to call back because…
Blanca Martinez:
The people that verify my identity is a whole different department and they do not take calls and they do not get messages. And they have 10 to 12 weeks to verify my identity.
Speaker 6:
And we reached out to EDD who said that they’re inundated right now. And the soonest they’ll be able to provide new details is this coming Thursday.
Abby:
I was going online, checking my balance and everything, confirming what I had from that. I had received my benefits for that week. And I noticed that there was a charge for American Eagle for $400. And I thought, “Hmm, I haven’t shopped in American Eagle. I have not been shopping with my pandemic money, so that’s very interesting.” So I go and I look at the transaction and see that someone from Kansas had shopped and sent themselves some online clothes.
Travis Taylor:
How much?
Abby:
It was between 300 and 400.
Travis Taylor:
Oh, wow, okay.
Abby:
That they spent at American Eagle. I saw the transaction. So from there, I called Bank of America to see what I could do. They told me that because it was pending that they couldn’t do anything. So they had me wait until the transaction went fully through.
Travis Taylor:
And how long did that take?
Abby:
I believe it took a couple days, nothing too severe. But then when I called back, once it had posted, they tried to tell me that I shouldn’t have let it be posted and that it would be difficult now to get the money [inaudible 00:23:04]. I said, “Well, I’m not in Kansas, so I don’t have anything sent to Kansas.”
Adam Levin:
Banks have been very difficult during these processes. Banks are difficult in general. Especially when it involves debit cards.
Beau Friedlander:
But, Adam, I’m curious. They wanted her to hold and then they said, “Well, we can’t cancel it because it hasn’t posted yet.” And then when it did post, they said, “Oh, sorry, you shouldn’t have let it post.” That to me sounds like a horror show.
Adam Levin:
It’s like, “And what am I supposed to do? Just stop posting it? I’ve already called you and said there’s something wrong in River City.”
Beau Friedlander:
You have no choice between those two choices because you have to do one or the other and they’ve told you not to do either. But so what did end up happening? Did you get your money back and how long did it take?
Abby:
I did end up getting my money back. Lots of phone calls, emails, proof that I was in California. And I believe it took around two weeks to a month to get back. They have hundreds of fraud cases every single day. So I just feel like it was all always delayed and just took way too long.
Adam Levin:
But this was a bank issue. This wasn’t an EDD.
Abby:
I believe they must have somehow, some sort of site I went on online, maybe got the card information, something I had purchased online. I’m honestly not sure how someone in Kansas got my EDD Bank of America card information.
Adam Levin:
Oh, so that was on episode number one. But then there was episode number two, which as I understand was even more scary.
Abby:
I had made a trip down to Palm Springs and used my card at a gas station. I didn’t think anything of it. But after the trip to Palm Springs, came back, did my weekly benefits. I believe I had two weeks on there that they had owed. So I was set to get a larger chunk of that. So I went online to double check, I had certified for my benefits. I went to check my account and I saw that I had received my benefits and then it said negative $2,000. So all of my EDD…
Beau Friedlander:
Negative $2,000?
Abby:
Yeah, it had taken that amount out.
Beau Friedlander:
Okay. You weren’t upside down by $2,000. Okay. You didn’t owe the state two grand.
Abby:
No, it didn’t go negative, but they took all of the money in my account. It was cleaned out as if they were watching and waiting for the balance to go up and then just took it. So out of nowhere, all my EDD money was gone and I had rent to pay. I believe it was right at the end of the month. So I was having to pay it very quickly.
Travis Taylor:
You mentioned at a gas station, I’m just wondering if that’s where you think that the card was compromised?
Abby:
Yes. I do think it was compromised. I was able to deduct that I mostly used my card for rent, gas and the very basic necessities. So I didn’t use it too often and so I was able to deduct from the fact that the last place I had used it was that gas station in Palm Springs. So I called the gas station and said, “Hey, I’ve had money stolen. It’s something going on.” And the person at the gas station said I guess he had received multiple calls that people were, or that I wasn’t the first call he had received from people asking where his money went. He didn’t know what happened. So I personally, I don’t know if it was the store employee who had put it on, but it turns out that I guess it was something called a skimmer.
Beau Friedlander:
Yep.
Travis Taylor:
Yep.
Adam Levin:
Skimmers, yeah.
Abby:
And that was my first introduction to skimmers. I didn’t know they existed.
Adam Levin:
Welcome to our world.
Beau Friedlander:
Well, Adam, I actually think Abby, it may have been your second introduction to skimmers because it sounds like the Kansas purchase on American Eagle probably also occurred really some kind of skimming probably. You’re using a device, a magnetic strip, which is super easy to record on almost every skimming tool out there. So, you know what I was wondering, Adam, was if the Kansas a purchase was a little…
Adam Levin:
Test?
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah.
Adam Levin:
Could have been because the stuff was shipped to Kansas, which means you don’t really know where all of this started.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah.
Adam Levin:
But it’s very clear. Step one was, “Let’s see if we get away with merchandise,” and then step two is…
Beau Friedlander:
Money.
Adam Levin:
“Now let’s go all the way. Let’s get the full Monty on this.”
Beau Friedlander:
And the fact that it seemed as though they were watching and waiting for the money to drop, it is a little off because they know exactly when the money’s going to drop, same way you do. Anyone going after this money is aware of when the government is going to put that money in your bank account, in your debit card account. And so the question becomes, “What kind of pond scum does that?”
Abby:
Yeah, that was definitely a real shocker for me. I, of course, know that people get scammed a lot, but I was just shocked to think that there’s people out there who would take from people in such need, in such a hard time for the whole entire world. And I shutter to think of people…I am so blessed to have support from my family, from my friends and people who helped me through that situation. But thinking of people who don’t have that kind of support, who have kids that they have to feed, they’ve got rent, they’ve got bills. They don’t have people who can help them and support them through something like that. It ruins so many lives, I only imagine.
Adam Levin:
So now you find out your 2,000 is gone, now what? How’d you feel? What’d you do?
Abby:
Devastated. Definitely had a little bit of a meltdown.
Beau Friedlander:
How’d you feel? Well, there’s Adam, “How’d you feel? What’d you do?”
Abby:
It was hands down the most stressful time, I think in my adult life. I had a career, a steady career of lashing. The pandemic hits, everything changes. My whole adult life has changed overnight. Essentially the workplace, every everything has changed and then you’re relying solely on the government to get you through it. And I’ve never been in a position like that. So vulnerable, so dependent on a system’s help. And then to have that system just totally backfire and make your living situation near impossible. It was so frustrating and disheartening. And I spent hours and days on end on the phone, just crying and so at my wits end with this. Just with no response, the government didn’t care. It was a mess.
Abby:
I believe it was after that first month going into the second that I was finally receiving the paperwork that I had to put in for the fraud and they started doing the more communicative gestures with me, but it was weeks and weeks of absolutely nothing. Calling, getting hung up on, couldn’t even reach any sort of system, no response to my emails. And all I could do was look on Twitter and see what everybody else was saying. And it was the same thing, nobody was answering in California. Nobody.
Adam Levin:
Did your weekly payments continue to come in. This 2,000 was gone, but did they continue to come in?
Abby:
I don’t believe so. I think that around that time, when it happened was when there were tons of cases of fraud. And from what I remember, it seemed like they kind of shut down paying people because there were so many cases of fraud. It went weeks and weeks and weeks without being paid. And I wasn’t able to get the money in for my claims because I don’t know. I can’t really remember, I feel like it may have been because there was a fraudulent case happening. And so they were not continuing to payments, but I’m not really sure.
Beau Friedlander:
So they halted it. So just to be clear for listeners, you had to apply and re-certify every week that you had looked for a job, didn’t find a job and therefore needed assistance.
Abby:
Yes, weekly.
Beau Friedlander:
And then when you did that, you would get paid every week. So when you say it had taken weeks for you to get any money, that was really four or five payment periods that you didn’t get paid on.
Abby:
Yes. And like I mentioned before, I was fortunate enough, I had my family’s support and they helped me through that time. But there was rent and bills due that I wasn’t able to pay because they weren’t answering, they weren’t getting back and did nothing to help my situation for.
Adam Levin:
Yeah because it’s not like the bills stop.
Abby:
Exactly
Adam Levin:
When the compensation stops.
Travis Taylor:
So was Bank of America more helpful the second time around? Or did you just have the same experience again with them?
Abby:
I’d say it was about the same. Bank of America and the California EDD, it was almost like it was a team effort to not answer anybody’s questions or concerns.
Travis Taylor:
Well, one of the ironies there too, is that if you’re on unemployment and you’re trying to find a new job and then you’re having to spend that much time on the phone or trying to get in contact with the unemployment office or Bank of America, that kind of cuts into the job application process.
Abby:
Yeah, absolutely. I spent it felt like it was a full-time job trying to get the money that was stolen back from me and settle.
Adam Levin:
You’re trying to do a full time job and you’re doing full time job trying to get your money back.
Abby:
Yes.
Adam Levin:
How did it ultimately resolve itself? Did you get the money back and how long did it ultimately take you to get the money back?
Abby:
I did get the money back. I believe it was around that two month mark and I had a case worker. I had to fill out a lot of paperwork, do a lot of that sort of thing. It kind of went away from being digital and more into a paper trail, that sort of thing. So I had all this fraud paperwork I had to fill out and apply for it. And then for the mail, it obviously takes a little bit longer. So it definitely took, I think closer to that two month mark, to actually see things go back to normal, in terms of benefits and everything.
Adam Levin:
And during that two month mark, in addition to this money being gone, you did not see any additional money from California?
Abby:
No, I was flat broke for well over a month. I’d have to check my actual statements, but I believe it was between that first and second month that I did start to see a return of benefits. So it started slowly, but they went a long time without answering or responding to anything. And there was definitely a period of limbo where nothing went.
Adam Levin:
No, and it’s not easy for you to catch up. That’s clear.
Abby:
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 8:
According to comparecards.com, 23% of Americans have been the victim of skimming at the gas pump. That is up 8% from last year.
Travis Taylor:
Was there anything that you got out of the experience that if you were to say, “Okay, if I had to go through this process again, I would do this differently.” Or was it just pretty much a complete and utter cluster?
Abby:
I would say it’s definitely a little bit of both. I feel like I learned a lot, like I had mentioned, I didn’t even know what a skimmer was before this happened, growing up in small town Montana. These kind of frauds are not really common. I didn’t even know that existed.
Adam Levin:
Well, most people think a skimmer is something you use to clean the top of a swimming pools.
Abby:
Yep, that’s what I thought. But I learned that and learned I feel a lot more emphasis on me needing to continually check your accounts, make sure that everything is correct. Be on it. If there’s a charge that you aren’t familiar with, making sure to always be checking, that’s something that was a big thing. Big lesson for me.
Adam Levin:
I think over a hundred billion dollars worth of unemployment compensation, in fact, much more than that, disappeared during COVID. And a lot of states are in the process of still clawing that money back, along with the federal government.
Beau Friedlander:
Now is that PPP money as well you’re talking about? Ar are you talking about unemployment?
Adam Levin:
Unemployment benefits as well as, I believe the federal government, was also providing extended unemployment benefits.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah, they were.
Adam Levin:
And the state of Washington alone had hundreds of millions of dollars worth of fraud that they were able to recover, I think, half of it back. But scammers got on this really quickly and they went to town and an awful lot of people got hurt. And I hear how grateful you are in terms of the fact that your family stood up for you, but this could clearly devastate somebody who didn’t have the kind of support system that you had.
Beau Friedlander:
And it makes you think that the scammers, the penalties for these guys, should be merciless if you ask me, because they are completely merciless when it comes to the people they are affecting.
Abby:
And that was something that was so frustrating for me, honestly, I didn’t know that there were people this low and that there were people who would do this. And I wanted justice. I was like, “How can people do this?” It seemed that they were telling you, “Well, there’s nothing we can do. They took the money, it would likely be impossible to track,” and all that. How? This is the internet. There need to be consequences for this. They should absolutely be punished to the highest extent.
Adam Levin:
They become very aggressive, in terms of going after those people that I identify. But there were a lot of people that they couldn’t identify and a lot of people that were operating way beyond the jurisdiction of the United States in countries that looked the other way. Either because it was generating a line item for the GDP of a particular country, or it was that the government just didn’t care.
Travis Taylor:
And even if they’re able to track them down too, the damage has already been done, if you’re one of the people that’s been stolen from.
Adam Levin:
We truly appreciate you sharing your story with us and our listeners today. And we can’t thank you enough for taking time and being with us.
Abby:
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. I’m happy to share my story in hopes that people can learn from it, absolutely.
Beau Friedlander:
So guys, skimmers.
Adam Levin:
Swimming pools.
Beau Friedlander:
You said that. And I’m like, “I don’t know if people who haven’t spent a lot of time in swimming pools think swimming pool first with skimmer,” but I don’t know what else you would think of. What else is… Skimmer.
Adam Levin:
Mob, gambling.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, yeah. That’s right.
Adam Levin:
People’s skimming money off top.
Beau Friedlander:
You really are from New Jersey, aren’t you?
Adam Levin:
I am. The slogan in New Jersey is, “Skimming ain’t just about pools, baby.”
Beau Friedlander:
As I recall, back in the day when skimmers were first an issue, maybe 10 years ago, I think that was about when I first started hearing about them. They were pretty big. And if you were paying attention, you actually would’ve had to have been a little daft to fall for it. Because you could see they’re like, “Oh, there’s something on my something that I’m skimming my card in.” Are they still pretty easy to recognize? My understanding is they’re not.
Travis Taylor:
No, they’re not, they’re really low profile. From when we had Brian on a couple of weeks ago, Brian Ebert, one of the things that he said was that, “Unless you’re specifically looking for it, you would never notice it.” They’re small. They fit right over the card slot, especially in a gas pump. And you would be none the wiser.
Adam Levin:
Especially at a gas pump, you’re kind of distracted.
Travis Taylor:
Right.
Beau Friedlander:
But I heard Brian talking about that, but I still feel like I would see it. I feel like you would see some sort of little nubbin sticking. A little bit of the profile would be a slightly wrong and you’d clock it. Are you saying that there’s something that fits inside of the card slot that is so small that you wouldn’t be able to detect it? I just don’t buy it.
Travis Taylor:
They fit over it, so that’s the thing of it. It’s not that you’re seeing something that’s in the card slot. It covers the card slot.
Beau Friedlander:
But it looks just like the card slot.
Travis Taylor:
Right, exactly.
Beau Friedlander:
So it’s like the fake website landing page that you get from a phishing email.
Travis Taylor:
Right.
Adam Levin:
You also have to think about the context. When you go and use an ATM machine, you’re kind of really focused because you got to come up with a variety of different things in order to do it right, how much you’re going to do. You’re thinking about money. At a gas pump, well now you’re thinking about money, but at a gas pump, you’re in the middle of a trip. You may have to run to the restroom. So you just want to get it in, get the pump going and then leave your car and go into the gas station or you want to get food or you’re thirsty, whatever. So you’re thinking about five or six different things. It’s a different environment than when you’re at the ATM machine.
Beau Friedlander:
And, Adam, I’m so happy to hear that I know that’s how you operate. I’m going to have to put someone on you next time. If you leave your car alone at the gas station and go in and do stuff.
Adam Levin:
No, I don’t, but it’s a lot of other people that do. I watch them do it.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, I gotcha. All right. Well, that’s a drag because I like your car.
Adam Levin:
Just like my watch that you’ve been trying to steal for seven years.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah, for listeners who don’t know, whenever Adam is relaxing and thinking, “I like Beau.” I put my hand on his wrist to say I like him too and then I try to take his watch. Well, the only other thing I learned in this episode is that the bad people out there, the threat actors, are incapable of any kind of moral compass empathy.
Beau Friedlander:
There’s no feeling heart there. I don’t get it. I get it but I don’t get it.
Adam Levin:
Beau, I appreciate the way you feel about this. And heaven knows you are a thousand percent right. But think about all of the people that do ransomware attacks against healthcare facilities and then talk to me about the moral compass of those engaged in these nefarious activities. There is no moral compass.
Beau Friedlander:
So you’re basically saying that compared to the ransomware people, these unemployment benefits thieves are kind of the choir boys.
Adam Levin:
I would just say that they all…
Beau Friedlander:
They all suck.
Adam Levin:
They’re all looking for moral compass somewhere or they don’t care. Look, it’s all about the money. It’s about the money and everything else is collateral damage. That’s the way they feel.
Beau Friedlander:
Unbelievable.
Travis Taylor:
Well, one of the other things too, is that the COVID epidemic hit so quickly. So if you just imagine the amount of upheaval that you would’ve been going through for COVID and then unemployment, and then getting ripped off, all in rapid succession, that just sounds extremely stressful.
Adam Levin:
There are insufficient protections available in the system. And someone asked an interesting question the other day.
Beau Friedlander:
What was it?
Adam Levin:
Is it easier to spot a skimmer or spot a transaction? The answer is it is not as easy to spot a skimmer as it used to be, but it is easy to spot a transaction. You just have to look to see if a transaction occurred because you’ll know whether or not you did it.
Beau Friedlander:
And you can shut it down immediately when you see that. But it is actually a muscle that you need to exercise. So if you have benefits coming in the future, they may go to a debit card. But usually there’s the ability to transfer them, isn’t there, Travis?
Travis Taylor:
Yeah, it’s definitely possible and it’s really easy to do, just to transfer from one account into another. Especially if you know for a fact that it’s not very well secured, like these cards were.
Beau Friedlander:
All right. So that seems like a lock, Adam, you’re fired.
Adam Levin:
Okay.
Beau Friedlander:
All right. So when you get your benefits, I want you to make sure that you transfer them to your savings account, okay?
Adam Levin:
No, you don’t. You basically want me to transfer my benefits to you.
Beau Friedlander:
No, I’m going to take care of that. I’m just trying to cover my ass.
Adam Levin:
I’m sure you are.
Beau Friedlander:
All right. That’s that. It’s been a fun time exploring the criminality of absolute pond scum with you. I hope you have a wonderful week.
Travis Taylor:
Thanks everyone for listening. And if you like the episode, please give us five stars and leave us a review on apple podcasts.
Adam Levin:
Ratings.
Beau Friedlander:
What the heck with Adam Levin is a production of Loud Tree Media.
Adam Levin:
It’s produced by Andrew Steven, the man with two first names.
Travis Taylor:
You can find us online at loudtreemedia.com and on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook at Adam K Levin.
Loud Tree speaker:
Loud Tree.
