Beau Friedlander:
Adam, would you go to the hardware store for say oranges or eggs?
Adam Levin:
Well, it depends if this was the general store.
Beau Friedlander:
Adam, it was a simple question. Travis, you know where I’m going with this?
Travis Taylor:
I think I might.
Beau Friedlander:
All right. Rentals.
Adam Levin:
We all know where you’re going with this.
Beau Friedlander:
Come on. Well, that’s because we have a producer, and it’s a show, but here’s the thing, I don’t get it. I don’t get how someone can go on Instagram or Facebook or a social media site looking for a vacation rental. It boggles the mind.
Adam Levin:
Let’s start with the fact that they may not be going on those sites looking for a vacation rental. They might be in the process of living on those sites, and fall upon a vacation rental.
Beau Friedlander:
That’s true. That is true. It seems to me like a pretty good place to get scammed.
Adam Levin:
Certainly social media sites have a history of being petri dishes for scams.
Beau Friedlander:
We’ve done an episode earlier. Travis, do you remember the episode featuring a nurse, who was not actually there?
Travis Taylor:
It was when we had Kristine Soloman on the show, and it was a turducken of scams, because it was allegedly a nurse on Instagram, who claimed that she had to go work for folks with COVID. Then she posted on Craigslist an apartment, which ended up being a fraudulent listing.
Adam Levin:
That is definitely a three for.
Beau Friedlander:
That’s a total swaggers, hold my drink scammer dude.
Travis Taylor:
Yeah, exactly.
Beau Friedlander:
We probably need to get back to this again, because that was a good scam, as I recall, but there’s a lot of ways that you can get got, trying to find a place, specifically vacations. Vacations are tough.
Adam Levin:
Well, there’s nothing more interesting than going on a vacation, going to the place that you think you rented, and it’s a vacant lot, that’s a hazmat site.
Beau Friedlander:
Or there’s two other families in the parking lot.
Travis Taylor:
Of the biggest areas of opportunity too for vacation rental scams, is not that many people rent the same house twice. You’re pretty much constantly having to set up a reservation to go to a place that you haven’t been.
Adam Levin:
In many cases, you haven’t really seen.
Travis Taylor:
Right?
Beau Friedlander:
Well, I’m glad that we’re talking to someone else who’s had this problem.
Adam Levin:
Welcome to What the Hack, a show about hackers, scammers, and the people they go after. I’m Adam, Cyber Landlord.
Beau Friedlander:
I’m Beau, Cyber Squatter.
Travis Taylor:
I’m Travis, Cyber Serf.
Adam Levin:
Today, we’re talking with musician, Dara Starr Tucker, about a clever rental scam that almost tricked her.
Dara, welcome to our show.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Adam Levin:
Now, where are we talking to you from?
Dara Starr Tucker:
I am in Northern New Jersey. I’m very close to New York. I’m in the New York area, Northern Jersey.
Adam Levin:
I’m a Jersey guy.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Really?
Adam Levin:
Oh yeah. Born and raised in central New Jersey.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh cool. Very cool.
Adam Levin:
Even had 25 years as head of consumer affairs.
Beau Friedlander:
True story. He also ran for Congress in New Jersey.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Wow.
Beau Friedlander:
Back in the day.
Adam Levin:
I just remember the Tom Kane phrase when he was governor, New Jersey and you, perfect together.
Beau Friedlander:
I remember it now. Did you know that I have a Northern New Jersey connection to Adam?
Adam Levin:
I think Beau has a connection to everyone in any state they live in. Because, he’s that kind of guy.
Beau Friedlander:
I take that as a no, you did not know.
Adam Levin:
I did not know, Beau.
Beau Friedlander:
Okay. There’s another way of saying that. My dad, when I was a kid, he had a co-op in Edgewater.
Adam Levin:
Edgewater.
Beau Friedlander:
Edgewater, at the time, it’s where they shot the movie Cop Land. It was a very fertile ground for me getting bullied. I remember it fondly still. Are you anywhere near there?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Edgewater? I feel like that’s familiar. I’ve only been here a couple of years, and it’s been during the pandemic. I’m not entirely certain.
Adam Levin:
I tell you what.
Dara Starr Tucker:
I feel like that sounds familiar. I’m near Harrison, Newark, that area.
Beau Friedlander:
Nice. Gotcha. You have such a voice for radio. Oh my gosh.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Thank you very much. I had to switch to my true podcasting microphone.
Adam Levin:
No, this is excellent.
Beau Friedlander:
It’s deluxe.
Adam Levin:
I used to have an office at 1100 Raymond Boulevard in Newark, New Jersey.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh wow. Wow.
Adam Levin:
Know the area well.
Dara Starr Tucker:
They’re doing all kinds of building in Newark. I don’t know what the ultimate plan is, but I feel like some interesting things are happening there.
Beau Friedlander:
You moved to that area during COVID?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yes. Right before the pandemic started January of 2020, my husband is a radio broadcaster.
Beau Friedlander:
Okay.
Dara Starr Tucker:
He came here to work for WBGO, which is in Newark, New Jersey. That’s a Jazz radio station, now he’s with Sirius XM. That happened right before it started. We had the chance to get out and see some shows, and do a couple of Broadway things, and then everything shut down.
Beau Friedlander:
Where had you been before that?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Nashville, Tennessee.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh my gosh. You’re hitting all of Adam’s buttons.
Adam Levin:
I’m in Nashville right now.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Do you live there?
Adam Levin:
Yes.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Wow. Yeah. I lived in Nashville for 13 years. Something like that.
Beau Friedlander:
Where should Adam go for dinner tonight? Tell him, come on.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh goodness. I have no clue.
Beau Friedlander:
Okay.
Dara Starr Tucker:
I was a musician, and so we couldn’t afford to do anything as musician.
Beau Friedlander:
Gotcha.
Dara Starr Tucker:
East Nashville’s a hub. Five Points Pizza was one of our spots, it was our stomping grounds out there.
Adam Levin:
Well, last night we went to a Nashville Sounds minor league baseball game.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh wow.
Adam Levin:
It did what it does best in Nashville. It rained before, and it rained after.
Dara Starr Tucker:
I can’t say I ever had the privilege to.
Travis Taylor:
You mentioned that you did music. Are you still a musician?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. I’m still a musician. Funnily enough, considering how much I do now, the more video essays, but I still consider myself to be primarily a musician. I just did a show. What is this? I don’t know what day of the week we’re at, but less than a week ago, here in New York, close to Harlem at a club called Smoke Jazz Club. I’m still a singer.
Beau Friedlander:
Standards. Is that standards mostly?
Dara Starr Tucker:
I do some standards, but primarily it’s become the music that I write myself, which is why I moved to Nashville. I was really more of a writer.
Beau Friedlander:
Gotcha.
Dara Starr Tucker:
And got into singing a lot of Jazz. I started out singing a lot of standards, great American songbook type music, and then slowly but surely, just started to incorporate more of my music. That’s a lot of what I do now.
Beau Friedlander:
Great.
Adam Levin:
That’s awesome. I think you can tell from Travis’s voice that he’s dying to do a duet with you. He’s going to play Barry White.
Travis Taylor:
I don’t think it’d be very good at it.
Beau Friedlander:
I’ll tell you something. My one famous musician story was when I was a kid, I was like 13 or 14 years old. I was at a dude ranch in Utah, and Marie Osmond showed up.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Wow.
Beau Friedlander:
She had boots that had a monogram with her name, Marie Osmond, or whatever. Anyway, I remember that, cause I thought that’s how rich people rule. When I was a kid, and I said to her, completely innocent, just a kid. I said, “So, will you sing for us?” She said, “So, I’m not working.”
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh.
Beau Friedlander:
I’ve learned never to ask a musician to do a duet with Travis.
Sorry, Adam.
Dara Starr Tucker:
You never know what you’re going to get, when you ask that question.
Beau Friedlander:
Maybe it’s time to ask again. Travis, Dara, Adam, how about a trio? How about you guys sing a James Taylor song?
Dara Starr Tucker:
That never works well over Zoom.
Beau Friedlander:
You’re all off the hook, and I apologize. I’m shutting up now.
Adam Levin:
Well Dara, you came across our radar, because of a TikTok you shared. I’m curious. Do you use TikTok a lot for your music, and is that why you started using TikTok?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Well, it was interesting because, I knew that TikTok was a thing. This was late 2019. I joined it, and I put one musical thing up there, a duet I did with a guitarist named Charlie Hunter. I just did a thing where I was vocalizing with him, and it really didn’t do anything. I’m thinking, well, I have no idea how to use this platform. I left it for probably a year, and I didn’t come back until November of 2020. I started seeing sketches, and things that would show up on Instagram, that had the TikTok logo on them. I’m like, “Wow, there’s really some cool stuff happening on that platform. Let me figure out how I can use this. Maybe music is not the thing necessarily, that’s going to take off over there.”
I knew that I wanted to develop an audience. I just didn’t know what it was going to be around. I knew I wanted to do some speaking out or something unconventional. Then, that’s when I went back to TikTok, November of 2020, really when the election stuff started going crazy, and you had the Summer of 2020, with the George Floyd killing, and Breonna Taylor, and all of that. I was exploding. I was just ready to talk. I just needed to get some stuff out. I slowly but surely, just started doing some little sketches, some little satirical things, and then eventually more informational things, and that’s what really seemed to catch on. It’s never really been a platform for music for me, interestingly enough. I’ll throw up my music stuff here and there, but TikTok really suppresses that kind of thing. It doesn’t reach very many people, at all.
Beau Friedlander:
Do you have a big following on TikTok?
Dara Starr Tucker:
I don’t like to brag. It’s significant. It’s pretty healthy over there, and TikTok is that platform that the numbers are a little bit cheap. Everyone’s got a following on TikTok, so you really try to take it with a grain of salt, but I’m nearing 800,000 over there.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh wow.
Adam Levin:
Awesome. Memo to self, I need to get on TikTok.
Beau Friedlander:
That is 800,000 more than I have.
Adam Levin:
Well, 799,804. Something like that.
Beau Friedlander:
Correct. My only followers are my daughters.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh.
Adam Levin:
Dara, what are some of the things, you said you had to get stuff out. What are some of the things that you got out?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Well, like I said, I joined TikTok, or I really started using TikTok in earnest, right around Summer of 2020, or really closer to election time. There was just a lot of craziness going on at that time, that I wanted to comment on. I would talk about the Evangelical community, because that’s what I came up in. The word of faith community, and their response to the shenanigans that were happening in the White House at that time. That’s where I started. That was my ground zero. Let’s do some education on race and culture, and let’s help to inform people, and help people to understand that where we are, is a result of where we’ve been.
We’re not living in a vacuum. None of this is happening in a vacuum. That was really my goal, was let’s provide some information, and education around issues of race. Then, I’ve blossomed out from that point. I will talk a lot about race and culture, but I talk a lot about film and television, which I’m very much interested in, and music, and media literacy, critical thinking, and that kind of thing. A lot of times, how race interacts with all of those things.
Adam Levin:
Obviously from your following, it seems that you are resonating with a lot of people.
Dara Starr Tucker:
I would hope so. Yeah.
Adam Levin:
You had a disturbing incident that you escaped, from what I understand. Tell us about it. What happened? How did it start?
Dara Starr Tucker:
This is when I was living in Nashville, just a few years ago. This happened in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, and was looking to just get into a larger place. I figured Murfreesboro was a little bit cheaper than Nashville. We might check down there, and I found something. There was an ad, and I don’t remember where it was. It was probably a Craigslist ad. Now, I really know better than to look for any legitimate rental opportunities on Craigslist, because it’s become such a cesspool of scams. At that time, I think it was really just at the tail end. This was probably four or five years ago. It was this place, it was a three bedroom home, and it was nice manicured lawn, and the rent, I think they had listed it.
It was just some unrealistically, low number. I thought, “Well, what’s going on here?” It was probably $1,100 a month or something. It might have even been cheaper than that. For a three bedroom home, even in Murfreesboro, that’s just too good to be true. That should have been where my first alarm went off. It didn’t, I think when people get suckered in by these things, I think a lot of what propels that forward motion is just your need to believe that it is true. That it could be a legit possibility. It’s like, “Oh yes, this is what we’ve been needing. A larger home, and if we could get into this opportunity, then this would solve this problem.” You’re trying to fill a need or solve a problem. It was within our budget, and it was what we needed. It was the space we needed. We called the person who was claiming to be renting out this property. He said, “Okay, you go down there, and once you get to the house, I’m going to give you a code to get in.”
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, that’s interesting. That seems very legit. They’re like, “I got a lot of places I’m renting out. I don’t have time, but I can give you a code, and you can get in.” Wow. Okay.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Right. It was that kind of thing. “I’m going to give you a code to get in.” I was just like, okay. Me and my husband went down there, and we’re standing at the door. I’m texting him by this point. It’s like, “Okay, well here’s the code.” He gave it to us. It didn’t work. “Okay. Just a minute. Here’s another code.” Didn’t work.
Beau Friedlander:
This is a disorganized scammer.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Right.
Adam Levin:
The listing, it looked professional though, when you…
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh yeah. Everything about it was legit. It showed pictures of the inside of the house. There were no spelling errors in the description, It appeared to be legit. There was nothing at that point.
Beau Friedlander:
The place that properly matched it.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yes. It was the same place. The address was correct. There was nothing that seemed to be out of skew, but it was like, “Okay, this guy’s out of town. Not really sure why, but he’s just going to give us a code to get in.” Had a keypad on the front. On the third try, it actually worked. He got us into the place.
Beau Friedlander:
Do you think that he actually was, just as I was suggested, disorganized, and gave you the wrong code, because he was doing this at several properties, or do you just think… What do you think?
Dara Starr Tucker:
It had to have been, he’s just trying to keep all of his scams straight or something, and he just…
Beau Friedlander:
Oh man.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Because…
Adam Levin:
It’s not easy to keep scams straight, we got a lot of balls in the air.
Beau Friedlander:
How do you know Adam?
Adam Levin:
We’ll talk about that offline.
Dara Starr Tucker:
I’m not really sure why it took three times, but third time is a charm, we got in. As I said in my video, it’s like when someone is able to get access to this space, and you don’t know how they got… You’re just trusting like, “Yeah, they’re legally in the position to rent this place out.” There’s no reason in your mind you would question them.
Beau Friedlander:
Dara, not only that, something to be said for somebody who is bumbling, and you’d be like, “Well, if a criminal is doing it, they’d have the number just like that.” He has to be for real, if he’s like, like Mr. McGoo. He doesn’t even have any chops.
Adam Levin:
Maybe he’s trying to get his glasses on. He’s misreading the number.
Beau Friedlander:
Glad we all know who Mr. Magoo is. Keep going.
Adam Levin:
Official looking ad, you show up at the house, the house looks like it’s supposed to look like, the grounds look like they’re supposed to look like, the code finally works. You’re in the house.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Right. We’re in the house. It’s as described, looks great. We’re looking around, and of course, my adrenaline’s just going, and I’m thinking, “Oh my goodness, if we could get this place for a thousand bucks a month,” or something. It was just completely unrealistic. I was in the head space of like, we’ve found a good deal. We’ve somehow managed to game the system, and we’re going to get this for a steal.
Adam Levin:
Then, you started doing space planning. Right? You said the couch was going there. I see the drills here.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Oh, your office could be here. This is the music room. Yes. It was just going to be ideal. We get to the kitchen, and there’s a piece of paper, a laminated piece of paper, that’s stuck to the counter, that says “This specific leasing company, whatever it was, is the only agent that’s authorized to rent out this unit. If anyone else has allowed you in, call this number.”
Travis Taylor:
It sounds like they had seen this before then.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. I think so.
Beau Friedlander:
Dara, did you think that your guy was the guy who put that piece of paper there, the laminated piece of paper there?
Dara Starr Tucker:
At that point, I didn’t know. At that point I’m just like, “Oh, okay. Something’s odd. Please tell me this is not some wonky situation.” Then, the wheels started turning with him struggling to get us in the place. The fact that it just seemed to be just some guy who wasn’t really terribly professional over the phone, and pieces started to coming together in my mind. I still just wanted to believe those few more minutes, those few precious moments.
Beau Friedlander:
Keeping hope alive.
Dara Starr Tucker:
I wanted to keep the hope that maybe this wasn’t what it started to look like at that point.
Adam Levin:
I’ve had that in my life where I go, if I only didn’t know now, what I know now. Five minutes ago, I was so happy.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yes.
Adam Levin:
Now, I’m so depressed.
Dara Starr Tucker:
My hopes dashed to the ground. I didn’t know what to believe at that point. We started talking, my husband and I, and we’re like, “Okay, well what is this about?” I had no idea about the keyless entry, and all of that, and how these scammers worked. No idea why he would not have been legit. We finished viewing the house, and I called him, and I’m still in that head space of like, “Okay, well surely his is not any kind of a weird situation. Let me just follow through, just finish this, and maybe it’ll be fine.” I call him, and like, “Yes, we love the place. When is the soonest that we can get in?” “Oh, it’s available now, it’s available immediately. You just need to send this amount of money.”
Travis Taylor:
How was he asking for the money?
Dara Starr Tucker:
He wanted me to, I think it was PayPal or Cash app, something like that.
Adam Levin:
So, no iTunes cards?
Dara Starr Tucker:
No iTunes cards or anything like that. It was just some quicky thing. I’m thinking, “How would I ever have record that I sent him this money?” That’s when it started to get really weird.
Travis Taylor:
Right.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Then he just started to come off to me as a hustler. Just go ahead and send the money, go ahead and send the money. I don’t know.
Beau Friedlander:
He was rushing you?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. (Affirmative) Then I started to think, “Oh, something’s up, something’s weird. I’m not really sure.” He wants, I don’t even remember how much it was. It was like a thousand bucks or something. He wanted me to send right away, and I’m thinking we haven’t done any kind of an application. He has not checked our credit. He doesn’t know me from Eve. Why is he rushing me to hurry up, and just send this money as a deposit? “Okay. If you want to hold the place, we were going to show it to other people. If you want us to hold it, then you got to send the deposit.” I think that, the promise was that, “Okay, there’s going to be some application process down the road, but just to hold it, we need this much.”
Travis Taylor:
When you were speaking with him, did he have like a local area code? Did he seem like he was actually in that region?
Dara Starr Tucker:
No. I don’t remember what his area code was, but no, I could tell that he was not.
Travis Taylor:
Right.
Dara Starr Tucker:
He wasn’t in town.
Adam Levin:
Did he have a deep voice like Travis?
Dara Starr Tucker:
No, he did not. I couldn’t tell what his accent was either, but I knew that he wasn’t from the country, and that’s probably an insignificant fact, but he was not.
Beau Friedlander:
Since Adam did that, Dara, I have to. Adam.
Adam Levin:
Yes, Beau?
Beau Friedlander:
Give us your Russian accent and Dara, you tell me if this is what he sounded like, go ahead, Russia.
Adam Levin:
I need your money very quickly. If you want me to hold the apartment for you, the house.
Beau Friedlander:
It’s not your Russian accent. I don’t know what that is.
Adam Levin:
I can’t hold the house for you without money.
Beau Friedlander:
There you go. Was it that?
Dara Starr Tucker:
No.
Beau Friedlander:
I feel like Adam is behind half of the scams we cover on the show.
Adam Levin:
Now that I’ve seen the Minions movie, I’m totally bonded with Gru, so I figure, his voice and mine are…
Dara Starr Tucker:
No, I don’t think it was Russian at all.
Beau Friedlander:
It wasn’t Adam then. Okay. All right.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Sorry.
Beau Friedlander:
You figured it out before you gave some money though. Yeah?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. (Affirmative) I was like, okay. I just started to tell my husband on the way home. “I’m like, ah, something’s just weird.” I took down that number that was on the kitchen counter, and I’m glad that this leasing company, at least thought enough to put that notice there. Because, it heightened my awareness that maybe I needed to step back, and just think about this.
Adam Levin:
Do you think if it hadn’t been there, that you might have gone through with this?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. I think I might have.
Beau Friedlander:
Now hold on. What did they say when you called?
Dara Starr Tucker:
When I called the scammer?
Beau Friedlander:
No, the company.
Adam Levin:
Didn’t you say you called the company that left the paper there?
Dara Starr Tucker:
I think I eventually did when I got home, and I think it was just an automated message or something that said, “If someone is attempting to rent this out to you, and they are not a part of this, whatever, then call the police.” It wasn’t like the company itself was offering any real help or had any real human beings on the line to assist you at all.
Beau Friedlander:
That’s super interesting Dara, because that sounds to me like a company that has a pervasive, maybe permanent vulnerability.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. They do.
Beau Friedlander:
That they can’t close. Their response was so not cyber secure. Their response was…
Adam Levin:
Call somebody else.
Beau Friedlander:
Their response was, I’m going to put a piece of laminated paper in the actual space, and it did work, but you’d think that maybe they would figure out why their passcode kept getting hacked.
Dara Starr Tucker:
There’s such a vulnerability there. This one, I think the setup was, you literally just had to go to their website. If you wanted to show yourself that this is the way that they avoid using any agents to help them with the process of showing this place, you just set it up with this leasing company. There’s a forum online that you fill out that says, “I want to view this place.” And it generates a code, every time you put in an inquiry. I could have done it. You could have done it. Anyone could have, and that’s clearly what they were doing. They were filling out this form, or just doing a quick request for a code, and it would let anyone in. You could do an unlimited number of these code requests. That’s what they were doing. They were just generating it on the spot, when we were standing there in front of the door. They were going to the website, and just requesting the code to get in.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh my gosh. Adam.
Now, do you trust me, that you have to stop doing that at your house?
Adam Levin:
I did stop doing it at my house.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh, good.
Adam Levin:
Did you get to my house, and change that again?
Beau Friedlander:
No, I actually have a question Dara. Was there stuff in this house? There was nothing in there to take?
Dara Starr Tucker:
No, it was empty.
Beau Friedlander:
It was empty, at least that’s good. I could just see some weirdo being like, “I’m going to take all of their yo-yos and vases.”
Travis Taylor:
That was weirdly specific.
Beau Friedlander:
I guess I’ve been wanting a yo-yo for a while. I don’t know.
Adam Levin:
Just to restate, the scammer would just simply pretend to be you, and then copy and paste the code to you. They were acting as if they were the company.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. I think the site is so insecure, and it probably still exists. It’s so insecure. They didn’t have to pretend to be anybody. Anyone could go, and request a code, and that’s what they were doing.
Beau Friedlander:
They didn’t pretend to be her, they just got the code.
Dara Starr Tucker:
You could get unlimited codes.
Beau Friedlander:
They were doing a man in the middle attack, basically on the property, but offering the property for ridiculous price, and then offering the code.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Right. They would take the original ad that was placed, obviously with all of the correct wording, and everything. They would just put their phone number on it, so that when you contacted them about the house, you didn’t get the leasing office, you got them.
Beau Friedlander:
You’d think the leasing office would’ve caught on at some point, and been like, “Maybe we should stop giving out the code online.”
Dara Starr Tucker:
Right. They clearly knew that this was happening on a regular basis, that they would even have to put this note on the kitchen counter, to inform us that this was happening.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh duh.
Dara Starr Tucker:
There are people being scammed all over the place, and their response is just, “Hey, by the way.” Instead of actually securing their process a little more. “Hey, if anybody offers this place to you, and it’s not us, then give us a call, and we’ll leave you a recorded message to call the police.”
Adam Levin:
When you did your little bit on TikTok, what was the feedback?
Dara Starr Tucker:
A lot of it was just like, “Thanks for letting us know.” I unfortunately, heard from dozens of people who said that they had fallen for that same scam. Unfortunately, it’s rampant, and it still goes on.
Adam Levin:
It will totally go on, because people want to believe. You were all excited, right?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yeah. (affirmative)
Beau Friedlander:
This is also a small to medium sized business problem, which is that, people are doing business in incredibly ill-advised ways, which is like, a real estate company, that’s like, “We’re going to rent out our places. Here’s how we’re going to do it, cause it’s easy for us. It’s the same old thing, Adam. Convenience versus security. You can’t have both.
Adam Levin:
The simplicity of it, is brilliant, for the real estate company. The ramifications are not so brilliant.
Beau Friedlander:
No. They’re not at all.
Adam Levin:
They’re losing business, and people are losing money. This is one where you won’t be a fan of this real estate company, if you even knew who they were.
Beau Friedlander:
You’re calling these days is, do you now do some consumer advocacy, or is this just because you had the platform, and you were like, “Okay, I’m going to let people know what’s out there.”
Dara Starr Tucker:
No, aside from the fact that, what I do in a general sense, is advocacy work. In relation to a lot of things, but no, I don’t consider myself necessarily a consumer advocate where these things are concerned. It was just like, if there are experiences that I’ve had like that, that I feel can be cautionary examples for other people, then I’ll sometimes share them. This was just like, “Hey, I’m just remembering this incident.” Someone that I’m working with, almost fell for this scheme.
Beau Friedlander:
It’s funny, because we’re more and more learning, that scammers are good storytellers. The story may be the one that you tell in your own head, like I’m going to have a house in this place, and it’s going to be a thousand dollars a month, which means I’m going to save this much every month, which means I’m going to go to Paris, and it’s going to be super awesome. It’s a story. Scammers are relying on you telling yourself that story.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Right.
Travis Taylor:
Going back to the rental scam. Here’s the main lesson that if something’s too good to be true, just is, or are there any other takeaways, that you would tell people to be on their guard against?
Dara Starr Tucker:
I would say, you got to use your common sense, and move at a pace that feels good for you. If you feel that someone is rushing you, be cautious. It’s never a bad thing to be cautious. Your desperation will sometimes be your downfall. Your desperation to make something happen quickly. Or, if they know that you’re in a pinch or in a bind, or any situation like that, that’s always a reason to be wary, to be very careful. I would say, you can protect yourself by being patient, and not being in a place where you’re too anxious to see anything happen quickly, because that’s where you lose your power.
Adam Levin:
There is something though that people do have to keep in mind. That is, at least up until recently with the attack of inflation. Rents were going up significantly. Before they raised interest rates, and more people were looking for places to buy. Now, they’re all looking for places to rent. In certain cities, you almost have to make an on the spot decision.
Dara Starr Tucker:
That’s true.
Adam Levin:
That is playing into the hands of the scammers right now. Boy, this is El Dorado for them. People have to keep in mind, is it real? Is it a scam? I don’t know. Am I dealing with the key things, am I dealing with a legitimate agent or real estate company?
Dara Starr Tucker:
Yes.
Adam Levin:
Is the process they’re using, seem logical?
Dara Starr Tucker:
You can always do a reverse search, is what I say. Look up the address itself, because these scams are on. When we moved up here to New York, we encountered these types of scams. You’re going to have to do your own reverse search, just Google the address, and make sure you find out what legitimate real estate agency or owner that comes up through that address, rather than just trusting the phone number that’s associated with an ad you saw somewhere or even an ad on apartments.com or someplace. These thing are rampant everywhere. It’s really sad how many people get scammed in these situations. If you do a reverse search, find out who the leasing agency is, and actually give them a call. That’s what we had to do in this situation, and this other situation that I’m helping out with right now, that I gave them a call and they went, “Who, what? No, this apartment isn’t even for rent.”
Beau Friedlander:
You’re saying, assume it’s a scam? Work your way backwards.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Do your due diligence. I think it’s less so with purchasing homes, but with renting, leasing. Yeah. You really have to make that assumption to begin with, and then, do the reverse search, make sure you know who exactly you’re dealing with, and they’re going to require paperwork. They’re going to require an application of some kind, and a credit check of some kind, before wanting money. If the first thing they want is money, then you need to be beware. That’s probably a red flag.
Adam Levin:
Well, listen, Dara, thank you so much for sharing your story for us, for our listeners, for your followers. This is a great service for anyone looking to rent. Thanks again for joining us today. We truly appreciate it.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Thank you very much.
Adam Levin:
If our listeners, if they want to hear your music or find you on TikTok, where should they go?
Dara Starr Tucker:
You can find me at Dara Starr Tucker pretty much everywhere, either that or Dara Tucker, on all social media platforms. Then of course, digital service providers for music. I’m everywhere. I’m all over the place.
Adam Levin:
You’re ubiquitous.
Dara Starr Tucker:
I am.
Beau Friedlander:
Awesome. We can’t wait to check it out. Thanks Dara.
Dara Starr Tucker:
Okay. Thank you.
Adam Levin:
Thank you so much for joining. This was great. We really appreciate it.
Dara Starr Tucker:
All right, thanks Adam.
Travis Taylor:
Yeah, it was, thank you.
Adam Levin:
Okay guys. This week, what’s the tin foil swan?
Travis Taylor:
Well, I was thinking a nice, and easy one that a lot of people know about, but not nearly enough of them do, is to cover up your webcam when you’re not using it.
Beau Friedlander:
Adam, not with your hand.
Adam Levin:
Well yeah, because it’s uncomfortable, if you have your hand up on the camera while you’re trying to talk, it strains your shoulder.
Beau Friedlander:
Also pegs the question. What’s your other hand doing? I would say…
Adam Levin:
Where’s Roy?
Beau Friedlander:
I actually don’t have my camera covered right now because, it’s all in line with my Hack Me Ethos, but Guinevere has hers covered with a Cyber Scout cover, which was a giveaway your company used to have, Travis.
Adam Levin:
Aw.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh Travis, was that not your company?
Travis Taylor:
It was on paper.
Beau Friedlander:
Oh wow. Travis owned Cyber Scout. Did you know that Adam?
Adam Levin:
Oh, wait a minute. He went to the Nevada Secretary of State’s office, and changed the name?
Travis Taylor:
It may or may not have business identity theft.
Beau Friedlander:
If you don’t know what they’re talking about, that’s the Andy Pham episode, and it was actually pretty fascinating. He got taken for, he had a 5 million dollar piece of property stolen. You used to give these things out, Adam, as swag. You use one?
Adam Levin:
Totally.
Beau Friedlander:
Yeah. And Travis, you use one that’s made or one that you just do at home?
Travis Taylor:
I just keep a roll of carpenter tape next to my computer.
Beau Friedlander:
Well, if you don’t cover your webcam, there is always the chance that somebody could look into your life, and it’s not just when you’re sitting in front of the computer, is it Adam?
Adam Levin:
Not at all. It could be, depending upon where your camera is, and where it’s positioned, they could actually catch you in the restroom. They could catch you in the bedroom. They could catch you in a variety of rooms. The last thing you want, is to be the star of your own reality show, without understanding that you have a reality show.
Beau Friedlander:
Travis, for folks at home who don’t know how to cover the camera, how do you cover your camera?
Travis Taylor:
Get tape or a sticker, just for that purpose. That’s pretty much it.
Adam Levin:
Whether it’s a post-it, a piece of tape, or one hand salute, you got to cover that camera.
Beau Friedlander:
What the Hack with Adam Levin, is a production of Loud Tree Media.
Adam Levin:
It’s produced by Andrew Steven. The man with two first names.
Travis Taylor:
You can find us online, at loudtreemedia.com, and on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, at Adam K. Levin.
